Moments that Matter at Scale
Daniel Incandela, CMO at Reachdesk, shares his insights on the role of authenticity in marketing, moments that matter at scale, and how company values tie into marketing.
Welcome to DemandGen Visionaries.
I'm Ian Faison, CEO of Cast Me In Cities.
And today I'm joined by an old pal and a great guest.
Daniel, how are you?
Hey Ian, it's great to be back.
Good to see you.
And hello everyone.
I am Daniel Ankondela.
I am CMO at a company called Reach Desk.
I'm about to be here for about three months.
So still new, still learning, but excited to chat with you today.
Yeah, excited to hear about Reach Desk and get some special Daniel insights
here from your background and beyond.
So let's get into it today.
Tell us a little bit about who Reach Desk is and who are your customers.
Sure, Reach Desk is a global gift and platform.
And so a lot of people in our space will refer to that as direct mail, but we
are, we market and sell the act of gift giving, which is about as good as it
gets.
And gift giving is something that's prevalent in every culture on this planet.
It's a meaningful experience for human beings.
So we make that possible, whether it's eGifts, we have our own marketplace
where you can ship across the world, quickly targeted and with simplicity.
And so that's what we do.
And we have a diverse set of buyers, predominantly on the go-to-market side.
So marketers will buy our product, tied to direct mail or account-based
marketing.
Sales will use it as part of their sales cycle and talk to future customers.
And then customer success teams will use it for renewals or anniversaries or
special occasions to take care of customers.
And we're also seeing it happen more and more internally, where companies are
starting to take much better care of their employees, which is exciting to see
as well.
Let's get to our first segment, the Trust Tree.
This is where you can go and feel honest and trusted and share those deepest,
darkest, demand-gen secrets.
Starting off as a CMO, how do you think about demand?
Gosh, secret around demand-gen.
My approach has always been it's not just about demand-gen.
For me, it has to take into consideration all aspects of marketing, certainly
the brand building or brand awareness part of things and factoring into that.
And then something I've said my entire career is really great marketing comes
down to really great storytelling.
And if you're telling a good story, it becomes less about demand-gen tactics.
It becomes more about connecting with someone. And once you connect with them,
a whole world of possibilities open. And so that's been my approach.
Obviously, I'm measured on a number. I keep my job based on a number and I have
to hit that number.
So I'm happy to talk more deeply about some of those specific tactics, but I
want to take a step back first and say marketing is much more than just a man-
gen.
Indeed. And we'll get into those tactics here in a little bit.
So for Reach Desk, for your customers, how is it bought?
Do you have a buying committee? Do you have a product like Growth Motion?
What are we looking at for Reach Desk?
It follows the format of traditional B2B companies. On the marketing side, we
are tracking performance on the inbound interest we get as well as how we go
outbound based on our ICP and TAM.
And marketing does a lot of the legwork to then hand it off to our sales team
and then they take care of the rest.
So that in itself is, you know, that describes almost every software company.
You know, our buying committee, we kind of touched on this earlier on who's
buying it.
You know, it is traditionally at director level or above within marketing or
sales that is making the decision.
But along the way, like most software, there are numerous touch points and
interactions with numerous people where we have to have our story right.
And treat them in the best possible way.
And how do you structure your marketing team to go to market?
So we're a series B company with the smallest marketing team I've ever had.
So it is built around what is critical to support the business.
And for me, marketing always comes down to three things. One is demand gen. How
do we generate enough pipeline?
The second one is how do we build a strong competitive brand?
And then the third is how do we contribute to a winning culture?
And the culture part is always important to me because it can carry and lift
the team.
And it equals a bump in metrics that's hard to quantify, but I've seen it and I
've lived it.
So the team is structured in that we have a team focused on revenue.
That is everything from optimizing the performance of website and inbound to
how we're spending money on digital media.
To how we're thinking about content that will be engaging.
We have product marketing and then we have a group focused on taking care of
the customer.
And then in between myself and the VP of revenue marketing, jump in to handle
the more strategic things for the company that pop up.
Marketing is always at the center of things, which is an absolute honor.
But it also means that it's not always a marketing job you're doing.
And what are the size accounts that typically you all are going after?
It's all over the board. We're starting to see more and more enterprise
accounts come in, which for a smallish company that's been around two and a
half years is a wonderful sign.
We do SMB and a bulk event has been mid-market, but we are growing quickly and
in fast,
paced and high growth environments. The company reinvents itself six months to
adapt and we're certainly living that right now, but all the signs are really
promising, especially on the type of accounts we're attracting.
All right, let's dig into some of these tactics and go to our next segment.
The playbook is where you open up that playbook and talk about the tactics that
help you win.
You play to win the game.
Hello, you play to win the game.
You don't play to just play it.
What are your three channels or tactics that are your uncuttable budget items?
I know it's early. I know you haven't been there super long and it's a series B
company, but what are you seeing when you came into the role as your uncutables
Absolutely. I'll talk about it in three buckets.
One is, how do we spend money?
Second, not surprisingly, is gifting and then third is is inbound.
And so all modern marketers are focused on account-based marketing in some way
or tiering of accounts that they focus on.
We're no different and we rely heavily on data, our ICP, TAM, and then key
verticals that we're looking at.
And so whether it's PPC, display ads, content syndication, whatever it is you
want to lump into that bucket, that is critical to us because one, it ties back
to ABM.
Two, it can drive to specific landing pages or get a demo, which is big for us.
It's the traditional approach to B2B. But I would say more importantly for us
as an emerging company, a company that was formed in England and now is seeing
more and more attraction in the US.
It also helps on the brand awareness and brand sentiment side of things.
And so for me, that is something we can't touch. One is going to contribute a
lot of pipeline.
But secondly, it's my responsibility to drive this company forward, especially
on the brand side.
Second one, gifting, which a lot of people refer to as direct mail.
Reach desk is my fourth CMO role.
And in each of my previous roles, direct mail is a channel, has been the
highest performing and highest ROI channel.
And so for me, that is untouchable, especially now working for a gifting
company. It's how we do business.
And our company vision is that every business is loved by the customer's
employee and the planet.
And so a part of this is how do we treat people and two of our great values
that I love for this company are deliver happiness and treat people like people
So gifting in itself ties back to the DNA of this company. Our company values
at vision, how we treat one another, but more importantly, how we treat our
customers.
Not to mention it is that nice little touch.
What we say, deliver moments that matter where you can help build a stronger
connection to a human being.
And ultimately B2B is about connecting with humans.
And so it works, it works on the prospecting side.
It works on the customer side when it comes to renewals because ultimately we
want people associated with us to feel special and gifting does that.
Last one I'll touch on is inbound.
And inbound I describe as anything coming into the website.
And my approach since the beginning, especially because I had a background in
digital, is that the company's website should be treated as a product.
And so if we're not testing, optimizing every part of the website, we're really
doing a disservice to the company to reach desk.
And so anything we can do to ensure that we're driving more and more traffic
and demand through our key landing pages or CTA's is what we're going to do.
And ultimately inbound like that is going to be a very low cost exercise for us
This is essentially strategy in human beings.
Tied to content.
I love the idea that marketing is about delivering happiness.
Obviously your product delivers happiness.
So of course that's why it's a key company value there.
But I love the idea that marketing is doing that because I think so often it's
very product and services, right?
It's very features and benefits.
And not so much about delivering that moment that matters to someone.
And I think that it's a really cool way of thinking about that.
And I think that more often you'd probably maybe identify that as sales that
would deliver a moment that matters to someone.
Obviously they're closing the deal, but we're customer success that would do
that.
And it's cool to think about it that marketing would be doing that.
Yeah, that's a great thing to be a part of.
You talked about driving traffic to your key pages to drive traffic to the key
parts of your website.
How important is your website?
You touched on it a little bit.
It's everything I think early in my career it was described as the company's
brochure, which I'm sure youngsters now would not even really understand what
that means.
But it is the gateway into understanding who we are as a company, whether it's
you're interested in a product or service, or you're applying for a job or just
want to learn more about us.
So to me it touches all of the things.
It represents what we're trying to do in terms of selling.
It is a sneak peek into the company's culture and how we behave.
And then finally it's also a way of just getting to know the company more and
potentially attracting the best talent.
And those are all things that marketing should be thinking about. It's why the
third thing that I always focus on as a marketing leader is culture because it
's so critical.
So for me it covers all three of those things.
But ultimately when I think about my responsibilities, especially to pipeline.
Inbound itself is going to provide a big chunk of that. And certainly key CTA's
whether it's someone someone raising their hand and saying I would like a demo.
Means that it is going to be.
A higher sales price.
Faster sales cycle.
And a better close rate on the sales side.
And so obviously anything we can do to direct people to their is gravy for a
marketer. It's critical.
But I also believe that the website is so fundamentally important when you're
trying to build a brand, which you're trying to do where a young company.
And certainly in this day and age where I believe the employees are in the
driver's seat when it comes to their careers,
it's impacting the very best talent because for us to scale the way we want to
and hit our vision.
We've got to have great people. It's all about the people.
Yeah, so if you're listening and you're looking for a great place to go, go to
reach desk and figure out a way to get on to Daniel's team.
Because he's great. Thank you. Thank you.
You mentioned that Sir fourth time being a CMO.
Why isn't this more common knowledge? Because I feel like when we talk to
people about gifting that at a minimum, people talk about how it's R O I
positive.
It's very rarely a conversation that it's not an R O I positive thing. And yet.
I don't know if it's as common. I mean, that's why obviously, Cody's like reach
desk exists, but it doesn't feel as common everywhere.
You see elite marketing teams doing it for sure or sales teams or customer
success teams. So why isn't this more common place?
I think you touched on it. It is commonplace. I think it's an unspoken thing.
And I look at the growth of reach desk and that says it all to me.
And then you look at the competitors in our space. There are some formidable
companies that are focused on gifting.
And so it is becoming its own market in itself.
We're going from it being more of a feature to an actual category, in my
opinion.
But I think it dates back to the early days of direct mail and that it is such
a clunky, annoying thing to do.
It's often some, some poor marketer that has pulled a list and then is
organizing things from a closet to pack it up themselves.
And then they have to find time after work to go to somewhere to ship it and
then you hope for the best.
And their company is still doing that. But in this day and age, it's totally
changed.
Reach desk. We have a dedicated platform for it.
When you say companies are doing it today, I literally did that on Friday.
I went nice and I personally went and sent a bunch of T-shirts to cast me in
employees this Friday.
Which is wonderful.
I mean, your employees are going to love that. And I'm sure it felt good to be
doing something around giving,
but I'm sure you would love to not have to deal with all the tedious activity
that goes into that.
So we take that out. We have warehouses all over the world. So we can ship
globally.
We take care of it for marketers so they don't have to worry about it.
It's trackable. We have incredible insights so you can track it back to the
campaigns that you're running.
And so this is a game changer, not just for gifting or direct mail as a channel
but when I think about any companies that are doing good account-based
marketing, for me, gifting is kind of the cherry on top of a great ABM campaign.
Because most ABM is all digital or a Zoom meeting or a virtual event.
And the fact that you can provide them with something 3D intangible makes all
the difference.
And if we're talking about deliver moments that matter, direct mail or gifting
is that thing that allows for you to connect to a human being by being
thoughtful.
And it goes back to what I said at the beginning is that every culture gives
gifts.
We all do. It is part of being a human being.
Yeah, I think that this is one of my favorite topics, and I love talking about
gifting in general,
but it's also one of my favorite topics to talk about anything that is
remarkable that makes you talk about something with someone else.
And that is the point of marketing. You want to remark about it and go to your
spouse and go, "Hey!"
And your spouse goes, "Where did that chair that shaped like a banana for our
son come from?"
And you're like, "Actually, let me tell you, this is the craziest thing."
These people are trying to sell to me, and they knew we had a young son, and
they knew that I had mentioned on a call that he loves bananas,
and they sent this banana chair, and our kid loves it.
That is a conversation that would have never happened without marketing, and it
's something memorable, and it's something cool.
And when you think about the next generation of what gifting looks like, hyper-
personalized, hyper-individualized, very cool, very value-add,
that you'll look back years from now and say, "The stuff that we were doing
with our marketing dollars back then was kind of dumb."
I mean, we couldn't do it because we didn't have the technology, and we didn't
have the logistics capacity and all these different things.
But at the end of the day, I think that we're going to look in the future and
say, "We could have been doing this way better, but now we are."
Do you feel like low-hanging fruit that marketers can look at for gifting that
they're not doing right now?
Marketers or revenue teams or customer success people, is it just about giving
people something?
Is it about giving someone something? What's the least effort, most revenue
version of this?
The thing that I have been most impressed with is there was a... I got prospect
ed probably a year or two ago, and this person had done research on me.
And sent me a gif with a nicest note, so it didn't come off as being intrusive
or creepy in that I had been stalked.
It was clearly someone that was just good at their job.
And so I'm a huge soccer fan, and my favorite team is Mentioned United, and
this BDR sent me basically like a 3D puzzle of the stadium for Mentioned United
, old Trafford.
And I was so touched by that. And so ordinarily, I delete most prospecting, I
never pick up my phone, but I took time to respond to him.
And even though I was not going to buy the product, thank him, and basically
told him what a great job he was doing.
And that's the first thing I thought of when you asked that, and that all came
from a gift as someone just being thoughtful.
And the team at Reach Desk does that really well, in that they will try to be
thoughtful, and you can only be thoughtful if you get to know someone or take
an interest in them.
And from what I've seen, it doesn't cross that line of feeling intrusive, like
it does sometimes. It's not like in LinkedIn when you accept a request and then
certainly, you know, 10 seconds later you get a prospecting email.
We are all about making connections, and I keep saying deliver moments that
matter. There are no strings attached to that. That's just who we are as a
company.
If it leads to a connection, great, but if it's just make someone's day, that's
what we're going to do. So, I think taking the time and effort to get to know
someone.
And B2B, we often think of, you know, a prospect as a company. It's not as a
human being.
Think of them as a human being and market to them or get their attention in a
way you would another human being, a friend or something. And that goes just
back to authentic marketing, telling a good story, and tying it all back to
your company values.
And I don't see a lot of companies doing that, but it was a huge part of why I
joined Reach Desk. I want to be part of something bigger than myself.
And we're here to deliver happiness.
It's funny when you think about this as kind of like a data problem, which is,
you know, back in the day we didn't have CRMs. So we didn't know what was going
on with our sales and marketing and all that sort of stuff.
But now we do have that stuff and a bunch of information gets dropped in there
about, you know, somewhere in someone CRM, it says, you know, Daniel is a man
you fan, unfortunately.
But, especially the season. Yeah.
I was just gonna say, especially right now. Yep. But so, you know, it's
somewhere in there. But is that is that little piece of information actionable,
or was that just like a smart sales person who ended up being able to connect
the dots really well?
What about like the non savvy salesperson who maybe they have that information
in there and they don't they're not able to take action on it. And I think that
that's part of the thing that's so exciting about gifting is it's actually just
as much a data issue in an in an information gathering.
And that's what salespeople are supposed to be doing and are supposed to be
great at is they are gathering information that you wouldn't be able to know
and figuring out ways, you know, to do that stuff.
That's what's so exciting for me about as a marketer is like, if we had that
information, we could create personalization that matters, but and deliver
moments that matter but but but but right now we're not yet in that kind of
mode.
I think we're definitely headed there. Yep. And if we were, you know, we were
talking about the early days of gifting and direct mail and it being so labor
ious.
You know, reach desk integrates with the CRM's marketing automation and then
provides insights reporting to show the success of the campaign in pipeline
dollars.
And so, one, I think all companies are going to start viewing gifting in a
totally different manner in that you can be kind and generous upfront and and
see the results of that.
But you'll also be able to see the type of campaigns or approaches that work or
don't.
And then I think what you'll see behind that, the layers behind that are that
it's when you do go the extra mile to to think about the B2B company as as a
human being and what what you can tailor to their interests.
That makes the biggest difference. And that's where we're headed.
What have you seen on the platform that people are sending that's working
versus what's what are you seeing that's not working.
A couple of things in that through eGift cards.
You know, there are options to donate to a charity instead of, you know,
getting a little bit each card or whatever and that is incredibly successful
and popular, which is so nice to see.
Because it's a testament to all the people that we're doing business with.
I think booze remains critical. And I'm guessing after two years of a pandemic
that makes total sense.
But, you know, bottles of tequila or wine are always going to be a big hit.
What about like swag from your company or stuff like that. Is that like, hey, I
don't know you. Why would I want to wear this t-shirt or is it like, hey, this
is a free t-shirt.
It's super comfy and like, actually I'm going to wear it because I know we all
have a million t-shirts from events that we've gone to and stuff like that that
we still wear because we're like, actually, this shirt is just feels great.
Yeah, it's I'm going to sound like I'm in a cult here and I don't mean it to
sound that way. I'm just just love what I'm doing right now.
I've received so much swag and I have so many yeti mugs upstairs in my kitchen
from different companies. I love those.
But I'm not one to wear logos or anything, but I do wear a lot of reach desk.
And part is I'm just proud to be a part of what we're trying to do.
And I've noticed just how willing our customers and partners are in terms of
working with us, you know, whether that's a case study or testimonial or what
we track a lot is when we do send gifts.
A lot of people take photos and so, you know, we track that and post about it.
And so I think there is, there's a movement happening of gift giving is just
the right thing to do.
It's the way to go. It's how you operate as a good company.
And so if you go to the homepage or website, you'll see some of the gifts that
are posted from customers or prospects or partners that we've sent where people
are just so excited to have received something.
And again, it's not just the gift of just sending something random. It's the
extra step of really getting to know someone and thinking about them.
Do you have a channel or a tactic that you've done over the years and maybe you
're not going to be investing in in the future or something that's that's out
there that you're seeing and you're saying like, ah, that's, that's, it's, it's
a very cuddable budget item.
I still have a lot of confusion around events.
And, you know, it is a traditional model for B2B companies to do either road
shows at various locations across the US or globally.
Or even investing in a big customer conference. And I'm guessing we will do
those, but certainly with COVID.
Certainly with the emergence of virtual events, which we have an offering to
for virtual experiences that ties into gifts as well.
It's just a hard thing to predict right now of when to really start investing
or not. So we're, we're doing a few things this quarter.
Going to ramp it up again in Q2, but you just don't know what's going to happen
in this world. And so that to me is a challenging one.
But two years ago, field marketing events were huge.
You know, and, and when the pandemic hit initially, I was a conga and we saw 35
, 40% of the pipeline disappear, because we weren't going to be doing events.
So I think ultimately that is going to be a big thing in the future. It's just
knowing when to go all in or not. It's, it's a bit of a gamble.
Fascinating.
Yeah, it is a bit of a gamble. And we don't know. And you could say, well, if
that was, you know, if it was doing 30 to 40% then, then what would it do now?
And it's like, well, I don't know, we've made it work for the last two years.
So two people stayed doing business like this, or, or is that an area.
Did we find an edge by not doing that?
Or is the edge going back?
Let me know what you find out.
Yes. Hey, we're, we're asking everybody. We'll see how it goes.
We've heard some good, good, good answers and good approaches on events on the
show. Nothing conclusive yet, but it's still so early. But I think like by, you
know, if you're listening to DGV a year from now, I think we're going to have a
much better.
We're going to have a lot of the people on that we, that people like you that
are, that are figuring stuff out that a year from now. We'll know a little bit
more.
Do you have a favorite campaign that you've run so far? I know that you think
about campaigns and pipeline and driving leads a little, little different than
perhaps the average, average marketer.
I just mentioned customer conferences and I love working on those because yeah,
either one.
Yeah, it could be a short call. It could be a three-year manifestation of a
company's brand.
It takes the entire company to put one on.
But as a marketer, you have to think about everything. And that is the design
of the event, the content of the event, the digital strategy to drive the
attendance of the event, the website.
So on.
Then it goes into the actual ad event experience, the branding of the event,
the way you're going to take care of customers and prospects and partners at
the event, the content that you have to organize the schedule, the food that
you're going to serve, the types of drinks, the evening.
Fun that you have to figure out all of those things come into one thing that
last, you know, sometimes 72 hours and then it's done.
But I have loved every aspect of that because it is the biggest challenge for a
marketer because you have to think of every single asset channel.
And it's got to be done in an innovative way because you're always trying to
outdo the previous event that you've organized.
So I just love events in that regard because I also love a challenge and they
are always a disaster, but it always looks good.
Indeed. All right, let's get to our next segment, the desktop, where we talk
about healthy tension. That's with your board, your sales team, your competitors or anyone else. Daniel have you had a memorable dust up in your career.
I've had many memorable dust up and for a long time I avoided them, especially
younger in my career because as you get older, you just get more comfortable in
your own skin and experienced and so on.
But for the longest time, my approach was to try and get along with everyone
and try to get everyone to like me.
And I quickly realized that wasn't possible. So there's one piece of advice
that I give myself all the time, which sounds a little harsh.
It's not meant to be, but it's really helped me. And that is, thinking about my
job at work is not to be friends with anyone.
My job at work is to be the best CMO for the company. And if there are
friendships that emerge, that is a wonderful outcome of the job.
But when I started to think about it that way, I became a lot less sensitive to
what others thought or if they got upset and so on.
So I could just focus on the details, the facts and the fact that I'm hired to
deliver results for the company.
Doesn't mean I don't try to approach everything with kindness and compassion.
I am also a very direct communicator, which can sometimes not be well received,
often is well received. And pipeline is such a big thing to talk about for
marketers.
And a CMO is often charged with owning all aspects of partners. And so it could
be marketing sourced. It could be sales development based on where they sit.
It could be AE self-gen. And it could be partner sourced.
And so I've had a lot of questions over the years from the CEO, the board,
other execs of what's happening with pipeline.
And so I've had to be very direct with other leaders, whether it's a CRO ahead
of partners and so on.
To push them on their accountability around that. And as a result, I've formed
some wonderful relationships with humans in those roles.
And as a result, I am probably never going to speak to some of them ever again.
And that's okay because there are billions of people on this planet, not
everyone's going to like me.
But I found that I do always try to approach things with kindness and
compassion, but also very directly.
That tends to work, but sometimes it's just not going to. And I'm always going
to advocate for what I think is best for my team and for the company,
especially when it comes to performing and holding ourselves accountable
because I certainly hold a marketing accountable for everything.
And any marketer will agree with this is that when you work in marketing,
everyone in the company thinks they're a marketer.
So you're always going to get feedback or ideas or criticism, and that's just
part of the job.
But if that's the way it's going to be, then I'm also going to call out others
if I don't feel like they're helping the cause either.
Any thoughts on some trends that are coming or things that you're excited about
coming up or any stuff that from marketing perspective that has been on your
mind lately?
You know, one trend we talked about events, and so whether it's, you know, I
think it's going to be a hybrid regardless. So the virtual experiences that
companies are doing now where it's, it goes beyond the zoom type event and
brings in activities and gifts, I think, is we're going to see more of that.
And then how that connects to in person events, certainly keep my on that.
I think that the CMO and CRO relationship, you know, it's always been important
, but I think at the board level and exact team level.
They are starting to see it in a different light, and I think the CMOs and CROs
that will join together as it's kind of band of brothers, so to speak, or
sisters.
It is the way we're going to see more and more organization organizations
operate.
I can generate all the pipeline in the world, but if sales isn't closing it, we
're not successful.
Or if we're generating zero, we're not giving sales a chance.
So we got to stop talking about these two groups like cats and dogs, and really
talking about them in the same way.
And I'm just hearing more and more conversations around that.
This is so cliche, but data is all about data and the insights it can provide
you in making decisions and driving the right campaigns and we're getting more
and more of it.
So I envision the function of what is now known as marketing operations,
becoming more aligned to like a data scientist type role, where we're going to
start seeing aspects of marketing become more productized so that we can cope
with the amount of data that's coming from our product,
website, Zoom info, some board, like on and on and on.
We've got to be able to use that. I'm guessing most teams are not.
Yeah, we have a new podcast coming that's going to be talking all about ops
coming up here soon.
A little teaser for the audience.
I love it.
All right, let's get into quick hits. Your quick questions and quick answers,
just like how quickly you can talk to someone how prospect talked to someone.
If they're on your website, if you're using qualified, go to qualified dot Cond
olear more qualified prospects on your website right now and you can talk to
them quickly with qualified quick easy just like these questions go to
qualified dot Condolear more.
Quick hits.
Danny, are you ready?
I believe so.
What is a hidden talent or skill that is not on your resume?
I am very much an introvert, which means I observe. I believe I have a very
good read on human beings.
What is a book or a podcast or TV show that you've recently been checking out
and would recommend?
TV show. I am on a big South Korean kick right now.
So, believe the one I'm the one I'm watching now is Sisyphus.
I hope I got that right.
I'm a little bit more than I should have.
I'm a little bit more than I should have.
I think it was a marketer pushing the boulder uphill.
Podcast, I'm always a sucker for how I built this. I just love the stories of
what entrepreneurs and founders go through to actually get where they land.
I'm also a huge, it's always sunny in Philadelphia fan. I'm listening to the It
's Always Sunny podcast right now, which is great insight into different shows,
different episodes.
The book I always reference, business book is creativity ink, which is the
story behind Pixar and their culture of how they drive creativity and
innovation.
I was fortunate to read that at an early stage in my career and really shaped
it.
It's a book I often give away as a gift.
I love it. I haven't actually read it. So, maybe that's got to be on my to-do
list here.
I think I know what I'm going to do after this show.
What's your favorite non-marketing hobby that sort of maybe indirectly makes
you a better marketer?
I'd say one and a half things. One is that I started a newsletter for myself.
One, so I could focus on just the monthly routine of writing and thinking and
gathering content.
And some people signed up. So, now people actually read it, but the goal is
just for me to write.
Writing is such an important part of being a marketer. And again, it goes back
to storytelling. Where can they find it? Where can the listeners find it?
Substack. So, it's called the ink. But if you go to, I believe, Daniel Incand
ela.substack.com or one of those, it's on there.
What advice would you give to a first time CMO who's trying to figure out their
demand-gen strategy?
Two hires. Hire a really good demand-gen leader. And then hire a really good
marketing operations person.
I am not a natural demand-gen leader. My love for marketing is a blend of
revenue, brand, and culture.
And that's where I like to live. So, I have always had really great demand-gen
leaders on my team.
I believe I have given them sufficient credit and thanks for the work that they
do. So, hire really well in that area.
And then we were talking about data earlier. And if you can't make sense of the
data today, you're going to miss the mark.
So, investing in marketing operations is key.
Daniel. That's all we got for today. Any final thoughts? Anything to plug?
Obviously, you're hiring.
So, for our marketers, go check out. And there's some open positions. Go to
reachdesk.com/careers to check out some positions.
And obviously, if you need a gifting partner, check out reachdesk.com. Anything
else?
I think you did a great job. You're hired yourself. Thank you. And no, you can
find me on LinkedIn.
Feel free to reach out if you are interested in anything, especially a job. And
I would say keep an eye on reachdesk.
In the next couple of months, we have some really, really exciting things
coming up.
I love it. Daniel, thanks again. Always great chatting with you. And we'll talk
soon.
Thanks so much, Ian.
[Music]
(upbeat music)