Tracy Eiler has been driving marketing strategy at both cloud-based and traditional enterprise technology companies for 25 years. At InsideView, Tracy leads the end-to-end marketing strategies and initiatives, and came to InsideView from her own marketing consulting firm. Previously, Tracy held executive roles at Replicon, Cloud9, MarkLogic, Postini, and Business Objects. Tracy was recently named “A B2B Demand Marketing Game Changer”, and was included in the Top 20 Women to Watch in Sales Lead Management, and the Top 30 Most Influential Women in B2B Marketing Technology.
Tracy Eiler, CMO of InsideView Technologies, focuses on CRM optimization and the value of an organized pipeline. On this episode of Demand Gen Visionaries, she emphasizes the importance of human interaction with customers to turn buyers into company advocates, the organization strategy that InsideView brings to a CRM that keeps all departments productive, and the importance of quality vs. quantity leads when it comes to prospective buyers. Tracy was also a key speaker at the Growth Marketing Conference.
"I don't use the term ABM any anymore. I really think that it’s account-based engagement or account-based pursuit, because we’re so integrated between sales, marketing, and customer experience. We go account-based not only for new logo pursuit, but also for customer expansion.”
"I really think demand marketers should think about, org structure wise, having sales development report into marketing."
"CRM data quality is something that the ops folks typically own, but it’s at the root of the impact to sales and marketing effectiveness.”
“Cold calling. I just don't think that exists anymore, right? If marketers are doing their job, we’re warming up an audience and reaching out to them and getting in front of them in a variety of ways.”
"Really make sure that sales understands and has buy-in into your strategy. It’s really important—we have to educate them. Wean them off of lead quantity and wean them onto opportunity quality.”
"We want more folks who are not white, and we also want diversity of thought, right? Take first-generation college graduates as an example. We don't want everybody to look and sound and come with the same background.”
Ian Faison: [00:00:00] Welcome to demand gen visionaries. I mean phase on host of demand, gen visionaries and CEO of Caspian studios. We have special guests coming on today. Tracy, how are you?
Tracy Eiler: [00:00:32] I'm doing great, Ian. And how are you guys?
Ian Faison: [00:00:34] I am thrilled to have you on. We have done a few interviews and panels and things together in the past. And as we were thinking of this show who better to bring on than a B2B demand marketing game changer like yourself, top 20 women to watch all the fun stuff.
So we got to know, first question, how did you get your first job in demand gen?
Tracy Eiler: [00:00:58] This is such a good story. [00:01:00] I was 16 years old and I got it. As a sales development rep or, you know, BDR and a software company in Ann Arbor, Michigan called Tom share. And I was one of four high school kids. And we all went by the pseudonym, Chris Kelly, because Chris never got sick or went away to college.
And Chris was nice gender neutral name. And we did all the lead follow up. And it was a really great job that I, I worked at, uh, during the summers and all through college, uh, as part time roles. So it gave me a lot of great things experience and very early exposure to what, you know, lead generation look like.
And this is like 1985, right? So it was a lot, right. It's time go. But so many things are the same.
Ian Faison: [00:01:47] That's hilarious. So Chris Kelly was like here, pseudonym.
Tracy Eiler: [00:01:50] Yeah, I'll give you a demo. So I would answer the 1-800-HOTLINE phone number because the company did a lot of print advertising and there was this one, 800 number at the bottom. So it was [00:02:00] Comshare marketing. This is Chris Kelly speaking, how may I help you? So that was how we all answered the phone. And, you know, they were inbound leads basically.
And, you know, we would type in all their lead information into this. Homegrown CRM that was based in COBOL and overnight, these response letters would get generated off of the mainframe. And then we would get these printed letters that we would stuffing envelopes would product collateral. And so, uh, that was the deal.
Ian Faison: [00:02:25] Well, flash forward to today, you are CMO of inside view for our listeners who don't know. Can you share a little bit about inside view?
Tracy Eiler: [00:02:32] Yeah, it's I do as a B2B SAS company, and we are a B2B data provider that has a number of tools on top of our data platform of accounts and contacts that allow marketers, especially demand marketers to build targeted lists, enrich their leads, but most importantly, and keep their CRM data quality. Fresh and clean and complete.
And we all know that your lists and your target accounts rule the roost in terms of demand, gen effectiveness. [00:03:00] So we're right in the heart of that.
Ian Faison: [00:03:01] Let's get to our first segment, the trust tree. This is where you can feel honest and trusted and share your deepest, darkest dimension secrets. Let's start out with what's your like overall demand gen strategy.
Tracy Eiler: [00:03:14] Our overall demand gen strategy is really segmented into two components. Based on the customer and the way that they want to buy for our small business segment, which is really small business eking into, or end of mid market companies with less than a thousand employees, we are almost a hundred percent inbound lead generation oriented with all of the techniques you would expect.
Digital. And so on the component we've added is conversational marketing now, so that when visitors come to the website and they're still anonymous, especially we're able to be present with them in a live conversation, kind of wherever they land. So that's the strategy there. And then on our enterprise business, where it's very large accounts, We are [00:04:00] almost a hundred percent account-based and I don't use the term AVS any anymore.
I really think that that is account-based engagement or account-based pursuit because we are so integrated between sales, marketing, and customer sure. Experience. We go account based not only for new logo pursuit, but also for customer expansion. So that's kind of the overview of the strategy. We can go into a lot more detail, but that's the essence of it.
Ian Faison: [00:04:23] Yeah. And so what does your org structure look like then? Who reports to you? How does it all look?
Tracy Eiler: [00:04:28] Yeah. You know, in terms of being a Fullscope CMO, I have the traditional functions, product marketing, which is handling messaging and competitive and so on customer advocacy, which is its own direct report to me because amplifying our customers and what they say is very important. Third group is demand gen and that has everything in it from digital to virtual events.
Live events when we used to do them, all of our email nurture. And so on fourth team is operations. So marketing ops, and that would be everything from the data itself to [00:05:00] also the running of our systems and tools and all of our metrics and measurement. And then the fifth group is. Sometimes in marketing and sometimes in sales, which is sales development.
So the SDR team, the Chris Kelly's of yay report into my group, which I'm very passionate about. I really think demand marketers. If there's one takeaway they have from this is they really should think about org structure wise. Having sales development report into marketing. And if it doesn't act as if it does and really embrace that leader in all of their processes and so on, I that's a whole existing, you know, other conversation we could go into, but I'm very passionate about that.
And then the last team is really corporate marketing. So everything that you do PR and so on analyst relations, influencer work that makes your company look bigger than life. So that's the scope of what I'm responsible for.
Ian Faison: [00:05:48] And we will definitely definitely get into a bunch of that sales, marketing alignment piece, which is something, you know, as much as anyone about. So we will get into it. Later. So in terms [00:06:00] of, you know, your product, the market and persona, um, you know, who are the types of folks, uh, what types of accounts?
What is the buying committee look like?
Tracy Eiler: [00:06:10] Yeah. Um, it's a really fascinating question. So generally speaking, we talked to the folks that are in marketing. People like me and people in demand gen second group would be operations. So marketing ops. Sales ops. And sometimes those teams are aligned with their functions and sometimes they're in a central location, it's just really depends on the account.
And then the third team would be sales itself. So the sales leader and their leader, because we do have an app that is used by sales reps to do account research. Typically one of those three teams as will bring us in, in fact, we're just in the middle of doing an inbound lead analysis. Cause I really want to know who's currently shopping the most and the buying committee is typically.
Those teams that I mentioned marketing ops and sales, but increasingly, [00:07:00] especially in COVID locked down and the tight economy for chairman's in the mix, unfortunately, which of course complicated it's everything and increases the need for us to have a really, really good value messaging.
Ian Faison: [00:07:11] And so as you're trying to engage those accounts and thinking about being topical and relevant and interesting, how does your org match those accounts? Like is sales have, like you said, an account based, like get engaged. Between strategy and then your demand gen team falls into, you know, supporting certain pieces of that, or how does that work?
Tracy Eiler: [00:07:31] We have a very collaborative process with our sales team and our customer success organization, because we are looking at both new logo, pursuit and customers. We have a very big customer base and we have a whole product platform and a number of applications that customers can buy. So let's talk about the customer side.
First on the customer side, we have good segmentation where we know what does that customer have deployed so far. And then what's the opportunity to expand the [00:08:00] conversation. And typically we're deployed in a sales department and we are looking then to grow in marketing and get. Into the ops folks books, because we have a whole data management product line that is really something that, you know, CRM data quality is something that the ops folks typically own, but it is at the root of impact to sales and marketing effectiveness.
So that buyer group, across those three, we're really trying to develop engaging content that talks about the value of CRM data quality. In fact, I did a survey earlier this year, which was around. Three of my sales and marketing alignment research that field, my book, you guys, we have talked about that before on various interviews, you and I have done aligned to achieve, which came out in 2016.
And so round three of that market research included a lot of questions around data and having a data strategy. One of the really interesting findings was across all the personas we talked about. Every one of them ranked CRM data, quality [00:09:00] improvement as one of their highest priorities, which was cool in terms of our market opportunity.
But what was possible is when you asked those same folks and what are you doing about this more than 60% of them, or either doing manual cleanup work or nothing at all in terms of integrating that data? So that's a conundrum to me and it's at the heart yeah. Of our conversation strategy that we're having with the account, which is uncovering the page, amplifying what she improving and then helping them see that there really is a path to improvement that we can help them with.
It's not that hard. It's not that expensive. It's actually something that will reap benefits. So that's kind of our whole content strategy is woven around those concepts.
Ian Faison: [00:09:43] Yeah. And could you walk me through like the. You know, for a customer that is leveraging that, that goes from like prospect to customer. What does that six month look back? How does that look?
Tracy Eiler: [00:09:53] Let's talk about that in the context of inbound and then our account base on the inbound side, typically we'll [00:10:00] get an inbound lead from someone who's doing research on serum, data quality. And of course it's always. Easier conversation when you're dealing with someone who's already shopping aside from the fact that they stay anonymous for so long, of course, but we will typically engage them in a conversation that says, Hey, what's going on with the data quality right now?
Have you quantified what's long and what the impact is, and if they haven't, which oftentimes they are having trouble quantifying, they just know it's a problem. We will go in with a number of ROI tools that we've developed to really help them uncover and unpack. The impact of dirty data is having an organization and that's everything from sales efficiency and effectiveness to territory planning.
And ultimately importantly, do they have a good target account strategy themselves? That's well thought out where they really have some confidence in the accounts that they are selecting with the target accounts side. You know, we may or may not have a relationship. And I hate that. You know, I hate it when demand marketers talk about.
Cold calling or sales reps talk about cold calling. I just don't think is this [00:11:00] anymore, right? If marketers are doing their job, we are warming up an audience and reaching out to them and getting in front of them in a variety of ways so that when we do raise issues where we're doing it with content or bait, as I like to think of it, as when I'm talking internally, that's really going to wake them up and show them that we are a trusted advisor inside.
You. And can really help them. We will typically then do once we get that early conversation going and talk early about ROI possibilities, we'll typically do a data assessment where we will take a sample of their CRM data. Right. Do a diagnostic, do a health check for them, which is very popular. Everybody kind of wants to know how bad is it.
It's one of those things that everyone in the company typically you'll say, Oh, my data is terrible. But they don't really know how bad it is. So we'll give them an idea of how bad it is and then what it would take to enrich all their accounts and get all their firmographics up to date. And even we, then things like intent data, which is becoming such an important part of the demand gen toolbox these days.
[00:12:00] After we do that data assessment, then we'll get very much into sometimes proof of concept if it's a very large account, but more often, yeah, we will work on deploying our solution for them. And sometimes it'll start with a professional services cleanup if it's a really big account with, you know, lots of complexity, but more often than not, we can get in there with our data integrity product and really start showing value very early over time.
Then of course, we make sure that they are. Getting all the value out of it, because that's the only way you earn the right to upsell. And that's the only way to earn the right to get them to be an advocate. And those are steps that I think sometimes marketers, I don't want to say we forget about, but we're still used to filling the top of the funnel and going after new logo that we don't think about our role post-sale and I think that's really changing towards man marketers these days.
Ian Faison: [00:12:46] I 100% agree. I think that so much of what happens post-sale is so critical for marketers to understand and to be able to market effectively because it's like now, especially with technology [00:13:00] right now, you just have so many. Whether it's freemium product or trial driven products or things like that, that is just pretty ingrained into our DNA.
That it's like not having this massive integration, not having this massive multi-year Le you know, rollout and all that sort of stuff. So people know that they can quit their SAS products a lot easier than ever now. So it's like, you know, that's, I mean, I think it's baked into pretty much every buying decision.
It's like, alright, I know I can get out of this and like a reasonable amount of time. So if that's the case, the demand gen person, you need to make sure that they still continue needing that product through implementation through, you know, the point where they're going back to their leadership and saying like, Hey, we just knocked it out of the park by being inside view.
Tracy Eiler: [00:13:43] Yeah. And if you've got, you know, like we do average selling prices of 50 to $100,000. You really want to protect that renewal. And you're typically right, not a cadence every quarter at doing business review with your CX books. Um, and you know, you're getting that opportunity to [00:14:00] get in front of the customer again and again, I do have a suggestion for your audience of, of a technique that I like to do periodically.
And I do this as CML secret shopping, where I will pretend to be a prospect. I will go through as if I'm shopping and I'll look at us and our competitors. And really come back to the company with a look at how we are stacking up and how we appear online. Especially, you know, we do competitive research so often that's deep on product, but we don't pay attention to the content message and the website experience.
And, you know, do they offer a trial or not? Do they offer a freemium or not? And so on. And then the other thing to do is a post-sale secret shopper where you really audit, okay. The minute that customer signs now, what. And get your eyes as marketers on everything as nitty gritty, as the welcome email, the early training content and the QBR deck that your CSMs are using every quarter and so on, you will find gaps.
I guarantee you, [00:15:00] and some will horrify. You did meet, you know, when I first started this exercise probably three years ago. And when I looked at what, even just the messaging of what we as a company were saying, posted. It just didn't match up to the promise we were putting in the market on the front end.
Nobody intends for that to happen. But when you are in a, in an organization that has little silos and you don't have marketing oversight kind of over all of it, and I'm not suggesting that CX reports into marketing, I'm suggesting that marketing has. A voice at the table to make sure there's messaging consistency, you'll pay off.
And that your CX folks, as they're interacting with your customers over time, have all that, the latest and greatest, awesome content and value messaging and other customer examples really ingrained in their brains to give that back to the account.
Ian Faison: [00:15:46] I love both of those, uh, techniques. I think those are great pieces of advice. You know, it's funny recently we've been working on a new podcast with a couple of partners and one of the things that. Feedback on they're laughing because apparently, [00:16:00] like we say sausage making a ton, because like, you know, there's a lot of work that goes into like creating something or like an implementation.
And they're saying like, yeah, we all joke internally that, you know, every time, uh, Ian mentioned sausage making that somebody needs to drink or something like that. But I was thinking about how funny that is, because it's not something I would have ever thought would be something you would position.
Pre-sale as marketing, right? Because you're like, well, you don't want to talk about that. There's a lot of sausage making that goes into something you want to talk about, you know, like easy button, but then it's like you have this implementation is not the reality of why someone buys when in reality it would have been 10 times more painful to go with someone else.
But this is a very complicated thing. I think that you're exactly right. To take a step back and to look at that process as the CMOs, the marketing team, and as the demand gen team to say, like, what does it actually feel like? Post-purchase and then what are the messaging that our team is sharing and there, and we're receiving is hugely [00:17:00] critical.
Tracy Eiler: [00:17:00] Yeah, you'll get all kinds of insights. No doubt. And yeah, you know, we are starting to look at things also in our business, we look at account engagement measures, we're a part out shop. And I have a variety of other things that our tech stack, and we're really able to see at the account level, how much engagement we're getting for a new logo.
We're implementing that on the customer side. And one of the insights that's quite interesting is. You know, you can see surges and engagement and you think, yay for us, you know, this customer is happy, but the absence of engagement is also an important signal, right? And so that is something that we're starting to incorporate into our risk profile for companies that might have a propensity to churn.
So, you know, I think those are all important things to be looking at and, you know, kind of through the whole customer life cycle.
Ian Faison: [00:17:45] Okay, let's get into our next segment, the playbook. So we're going to get into your playbook. You're going to open it up and tell us about the tactics that help you win the first question. What are the three channels or tactics that are your [00:18:00] uncomfortable budget items? You're on the Island. You only get three things, and these are the three budget items that you get.
Tracy Eiler: [00:18:07] Well, I'll say them, and then we can drill in one of them is all things to do with the website is the front door to the company. And especially now in COVID, it's the only way that you can guarantee interactivity with your audience. So all things related to the website, a derivative of that would be having a really great search engine optimization strategy.
You know, you can cut your digital ad campaign, for example, if you need to, but you really need to make sure that you're appearing in relevant searches and so on. Um, so I think I would say is. Really are a count basis tactics, which are very much orchestration of email, phone calls, social touch, and ads altogether and orchestration between marketing SDRs and yeah, the sales and CX for that matter, when it comes to existing accounts.
So [00:19:00] maybe I'm cheating a little here in with packing too many subtopics in, but.
Ian Faison: [00:19:04] I was just gonna say, you're cheating.
Tracy Eiler: [00:19:07] I think for number one, honestly, too, because the website, there are so many elements to a website, but it is your front door. I think those would be my two. I don't know that I can pick a third that would rank as highly if we were out of quarantine and everyone was sort of back to normal, I'd say field events.
It would probably be my third and figuring out a virtual way, replace that. So you can really get that human to human interaction would probably be my third. If I had to pick.
Ian Faison: [00:19:34] Yeah. Cool. Let's let's drill in a little bit. Um, you know, you mentioned conversational earlier. Everyone can go check out inside view.com, go check out their conversational. It's great. I love that the three options are talk to a real person. Discuss pricing and show me a live demo. It's like, if you are looking to buy right now, bam, there it is for you.
And if you're the type of person who does not want to be talking to a bot, boom, you have that [00:20:00] option there. And I just, I love, I love that. I think you all have a very slick website in general, but it is very much like that is the front door. Right? It's like you have the opportunity for people to talk right there.
Tracy Eiler: [00:20:11] And what you're talking about is this transformation that's happening all around how you capture leads, right. And for so many years, We all would debate about games, right? When you use a form, how long is your form? What content should be gated? What content should it be? Not gated and so on. Right. And we all know that the buyer stays anonymous for a bloody long time.
Right? It's like. 70% of the way through their journey before them make themselves known. And we've been fighting that tide, right. Trying to trick them by like hiding our very best assets behind a form. And then they fill it out with a Mickey mouse email. Right. So that dance and that kind of nonsense has been going on forever.
I think what conversational has done. And I've so much preferred that term, instead of saying chatbot cause chatbot implies a robot, right. [00:21:00] And sure you do have some robotic things that are super fast. Or if somebody says, Hey, I'm, you know, I'm a bank, you can rather them really fast to your banking info as an example, without having a human.
But most of our conversations are happening, human to human, and that is allowing us. To ungate lots and lots of our stuff. And we're still in the process of kind of removing it everywhere and making sure the lead sources are tuned in, you know, we're, we're implementing some new technology to do reverse IP lookup and de anonymize the web traffic.
So we have a better idea of who's looking at what and so on, but the conversation being able to meet that person. Right where they want to meet and have the conversation they want to have. Right. They might want to talk about pricing right away, which always makes our sales people squeamish, I guess, would be the right word because they want to control that conversation.
But guess what? The buyer just wants to know, Hey, is this in my ballpark? Is this bigger than a bread box? You know, how should I be thinking about this before they even want to have a conversation? There's one really interesting thing. That's starting to happen in with our use [00:22:00] of conversational and I'm excited about it, but it's also a nightmare.
It goes like this. People are staying anonymous as they normally do. They come to our website, they're still anonymous. They're getting a conversation with one of our SDRs and it turns out no, they're very qualified. They're ready to go. Opportunity gets opened by that SDR. So yay for us. Right. We've opened in 50 K opportunity.
We got a meeting booked with the sales rep, that person was never a lead. They've never been a lead. They've never filled out a form. We don't have their email. I mean, now we do, because they're an opportunity. So that whole notion of the we'll have full funnel metrics just goes flying out the door. So what do you do?
You know, D and not have the conversational? I don't think so, right? Yeah, because normally that person might've waited a while and so they were ready to have a conversation. So it's really interesting to see this dynamic happening. And I think we've got three opportunities now, just in the last couple of months that have come from an anemone two opportunity with [00:23:00] one touch.
Now we know that that person and people at that account have been all over our website before that we know from account stamping and such, but in terms of our metrics and conversion rates, I screwed up. So it's a brave new world, you know, that we're moving towards and trying to harness.
Ian Faison: [00:23:19] I love that. And it is such a dynamic space right now because. Yeah. Why would you the idea of like Gates, right? When does it feel good to be behind a gate when you're keeping other people away? Right. Not the alternative, right? It's like, you want to be the person at the party. Who's inviting other people and not the person who's waiting outside.
Why would we create barriers for folks to be able to get that information? Especially when we know who these people are anyways. Right. Especially if they're like our top accounts, we know we know who they are.
Tracy Eiler: [00:23:51] And you think about how marketers have been incented traditionally, right? Lead quantity, the quality visitors to your website, [00:24:00] all of the rest of it. So we ourselves based on how we earn. Sensitive has created these blockers. And I think when you remove that and you align around opportunity, which is what I've been advocating for a long time, aligning around pipeline, then your incentive to get to that opportunity regardless of how it comes in.
And you need the instrumentation and the systems and a really good process in order to be able to. Track what you can track. So I really think that we're seeing a transformation happening and it's just accelerating. It was, you know, it was happening anyway, but it's accelerated 10 X, you know, with what's happening in the world.
That depends on it today. And so much, you know, all our businesses being done online and over the phone and via video chat and podcasts like this. So adapting to that is really key.
Ian Faison: [00:24:45] And so you mentioned SEO. Um, how does SEO play into that piece? You're going to spend an uncomfortable budget item is making sure that you have quality SEO and content to push people towards well, in that [00:25:00] kind of. Exact scenario. You're talking about. If we're putting people, you know, content in front of them, that really gets them to move and be interested and that's not gated and people are interested and they read four or five or six things, it seems like, okay, you know, they're pushing themselves down the funnel.
So how do you invest in SEO content then? Are you investing in like, just making sure that the content is hyper-relevant and you have an SEO team that manages the implementation of that? Or how, how do you do it?
Tracy Eiler: [00:25:27] A couple of things with SEO. To build on top of what we had been already doing. So table stakes are making sure that we really understand the keywords that are involved, right. And some of that's our own hypothesis. And then a lot of is testing. Right. We see what keywords are drawing people in, and that is table stakes.
And of course, when we write content, We have an SEO partner outside the company that SEO AISES they're called ACE rankings are really terrific that makes sure all of the backend tagging and such correctly. So it's not just [00:26:00] keywords in the content, but all of the, you know, kind of the guts behind the scenes of how that content manifests on the site.
So that's been going on all along, but now with different trends, analogy, we can get even richer information and more dynamically about what's bringing people to the site, what terms they're using weave in intense. Right. So we can not only look at. The fit, but the intent of what they're shopping for.
Yeah. And then we'd done some other techniques like, and this is such an easy, the one that I'm, I kind of feel stupid that we only just did this. Recently. We took all of our content that had been locked up in slides, downloadable PDFs, case studies, white papers, all the rest of it that we spend so much time and money on.
And we essentially replicated that same content. In webpages themselves. So you can still download the asset and share it. And it's a beautifully laid out PDF, but the same content is searchable now in the site. And that has made a big difference. Cause now there's tons more that's okay. [00:27:00] Indexable right by the engines.
It's easier to find. We probably wouldn't have done that back when we gated most things, right. When we had forms in front of everything, why would you do that? But now that's a kind of low hanging fruit. Technique. And then finally how it relates to conversational. Our SDR is essentially a qualified as a conversational tool that we use, as I mentioned.
And there's a kind of console view that the SDRC, they can see when visitors come to the site, they can see what brought up them there, whether it was a, you know, an ad asset, let's just say on Google or LinkedIn or whether it was an organic. Search. They can see what those terms were so that when they start the conversation with that person, they can meet them.
I, at the time topic level of what that person was interested in. So let's say somebody, I was searching on CRM data quality, so they can immediately suggest content that could be useful to them, ask them relevant questions and so on. So it's all kind of woven together. But you know, that SDR is not going into the [00:28:00] conversation blind they're going in.
It's almost like if you've ever been at a really high end hotel and you know, the people have like the little earpieces and where they greet you at the door, it's like, hello, mr. Ian, welcome back to the Ritz Carlton. And then by the time we make it to the front desk, they're saying, hello, Ian again. Right.
And how's your family, how's your dog someone's zone. And you're like, Wait a second. How did this all happen? Well, it all happened because they had data about your neck. It's about human. They transferred into mealtime. As you were walking through the lobby, it's sort of the equivalent only digital.
Ian Faison: [00:28:30] I absolutely love that you ungated all of that and repurposed it for the site. I think that's such a brilliant tactic. And again, like you said, it sounds so.
Tracy Eiler: [00:28:41] Right. It's kind of like, duh, of course you should do that, but you're not going to do that if everything's gated. Of course not. So, you know, I really encourage people to really think about, okay, what should we be doing here? You know, you replace all your forms with conversational and invest in really good process.
It may seem so obvious, but one little thing that we have [00:29:00] done that's been very impactful is, you know, we have your list of target accounts that are very important to us and we load that into the conversation system. So let's just say acne, when they come to the site and we know through variety of things.
Yeah. Just reverse IP look up, which is a little sketchy these days because of COVID everyone's going through, you know, God knows what server, but there's other techniques, right? That you can figure out how to deal. Anonymize visitor comes from acne immediately that visitor traffic is enriched at the account level inside Salesforce CRM, so that we know exactly what SDR has been working that account so far.
And that way an alert goes to that same person. Let's just say, Steven, in this case, Stephen gets the alert that acne is on the site. So, you know, normally you could just round Robin that, right. And whatever STRs up would have the conversation, but wouldn't it be so much better if within 10 seconds of that person being on the site, Stephen news, so that he could meet that account.
Hey, how are you guys? I've been [00:30:00] talking to, so and so, and so, and so your account already, what can I help you with? It's a highly personalized experience, but really requires that you put up the backends, uh, you know, really in a very specific way.
Ian Faison: [00:30:12] So this all sounds great, but I'm imagining the CMO that's listening. That is thinking Tracy. Yeah, you're awesome. Except my VP of sales has had a thousand leads as the target. For us and 500 of our leads come from the ultimate best checklist of all time. Getting downloaded every month, like clockwork, we get 500 leads on the ultimate best checklist.
So what is going to happen when I go to them and go, Hey, we're ungating this. And now our leads go from a thousand a month to 22.
Tracy Eiler: [00:30:44] Yeah, well, I mean, you're pointing out a very good point and one that I have run into a million times. I think what you have to do is share with sales, the vision. Of what could be, and then [00:31:00] take some incremental steps to show them that those 22 are actually real life opportunities that have a propensity to close as opposed to 500 that are wasting sales reps time.
You know, my husband is a sales VP, as you know, and one of the things that he says all the time is the only thing a salesperson can control is their time. So if they are chasing a bunch of weeds that are tire kicking, not necessarily qualified, aren't going to be available for another six months to 12 months.
Why in the world would you want them spending their time on that? Wouldn't you rather, they spend time on the things that are, that have a purpose. So you got to take some incremental steps. I would recommend starting with an account list and really showing that you can have a conversational targeting for those folks.
Bring them into this cite, route them the right way. Give them some white glove treatment before you turn it off. Your number one asset. Right. That's risk. And, you know, I hate to say this, but when [00:32:00] sales is unhappy, marketing leadership is at risk. There's no question about it. Right. And you know, the average tenure CMOs is I think, what 18 months now it used to be 24 months.
Why is that? Well, half the time it's because sales is unhappy and we get blown out of our job. The other half of the time we get recruited out. Right. It's just the way it goes. So, you know, really making sure that sales understands and has buy-in into your strategy is really important. But we, we have to educate them.
It's the only way it works and being transparent is really important. That's challenging because sales often it does not have the time. And the attention span to really go through the nitty gritty details with you. So that's why I think aligning around something like pipeline is a really important thing, wean them off of lead quantity, wean them onto opportunity, quality, and doing that over.
Let's say a couple of quarters, right? And you know, some of this is process oriented and reporting and some of that is just good old fashioned. [00:33:00] People buy in and education. It sounds easy. It is not easy. Maybe
Ian Faison: [00:33:05] Yeah, the best CMOs are the offensive coordinator for the football team. Right.
Tracy Eiler: [00:33:10] that's very well said. Yeah. Yeah.
Ian Faison: [00:33:12] You either get promoted to head coach within 18 months or the head coach fires you in 18 months and there's kind of no, no. In between. So, you know, another point of, you know, that sales, marketing alignment, Nirvana there is owning the SDRs.
Everybody has a take on this and you feel strongly about SDRs. Why is SDRs something so critical to the demand gen team and marketing function?
Tracy Eiler: [00:33:37] If you believe that sales and marketing should align around pipeline around opportunity. But then marketing really needs the responsibility and the accountability of everything that leads up to that off, which includes sales development reps. Now I've worked in environments where that team reported into sales and [00:34:00] three or four times now I've been responsible for it team.
When I first came to inside view, it worked inside of sales. There was a small business STR team and an enterprise SDR team. And right away, not only did I say what would that team and just make sure I really understood what was going on. I embraced their leader and she started coming to my staff meetings and all the rest of it.
And it just sort of organically made sense over time. I can also argue however, Why you would want to keep the SDR team in sales, if you believe that the path or the feeding ground or the farm team, that might be a better way to say it of your sales reps is SDRs. You know, you bring in a stares in the company, they go through, let's say 18 months, and then they're ready to be promoted.
You can imagine why the STRs themselves. I feel like, well, Hey, I want to report into sales because I want that relationship. You can overcome that piece of it. The other component that, you know, besides the pipeline alignment is process. Now we all [00:35:00] know a lot of the things you and I have been talking about in this school.
Paul is very process heavy, right? Just making sure things are defined the right way and coded the right way and passed on quickly. And our SDR leader, Kelsey, her mantra is. Easily get on top of it as quickly as you can. And, you know, really embrace that customer. Like they're coming in the front door and they're your vape, your very favorite person in the world.
And you know, all of that is something that marketing is really designed. To teach the process and the message. And those two things are so critical for SDRs. And then the rapid iteration on what's working and not working happens much more quickly when you're part of the same organization. I like to position it to my sales leader says, Hey, I'm going to, I'm providing you demand gen as a service.
This is a service to you. So deliver opportunities. And part of that is sales development. And if I was going into a new organization and where the STR team was part of sales, I would advocate for moving it. But you know, you don't [00:36:00] want to make it seem like a territory grab. So the best way to do it is this essentially act as if you're all part of the same organization and you.
Become very transparent about things related to your process related to your scoring and all the rest of it. Then it's just sort of organically happens and I'm happy to say to them in our company, we have a phenomenal track record now of ramping STRs quickly getting them to really high value. I mean, we have some that are delivering a million and million in pipeline every quarter, which is probably 30% higher than what their goal actually is.
They've become incredibly value out of it. Numbers and then promoting out and not just in school account executive roles, but into customer success. As an example, if their skills are more suited to the more nurturing stuff. So I think that we really need to see that's an extension of the demand gen function.
Two years ago, I was in a CMO round two, uh, at the series decisions, events, and their COO at the time J gains. Was leading a conversation about this very topic. And [00:37:00] I asked him, Hey, do you guys have any data on where this or typically lives? And at that point in time, their data said that 54% of the time, um, the marketing team owns the sales development function.
And so that's a coin flip right in, I mean, it's like, okay, so half the time it's a one team at the time. It's in another, however, Their data also showed that the most rapidly growing companies had it as part of marketing. So I think that's an interesting data point and really one to consider. I have a whole presentation on this.
I gave at the growth marketing conference last fall. We can put a link in the show notes to that, cause it really helps you figure out where should this fit and what are some of the ways I can come across making that decision.
Ian Faison: [00:37:42] I absolutely love it. And you have a secret weapon when it comes to developing your SDRs in a partner called SV Academy, which is sv.academy for listeners. Want to check it out? Can you share more about this group?
Tracy Eiler: [00:37:55] Oh, yeah, for sure. So, you know, most of us have been struggling with. [00:38:00] Recruiting SCRs, um, ramping up, retaining them, right? That's one set of problems. The other set of problems, which is really becoming, I would say table stakes for companies is we want to expand the diversity in our companies. We want more women.
We want more folks who are not white. And we also want diversity of thought, right? First generation college graduates as an example, right? We don't want everybody to look and sound and come with the same background. So those two competing forces have come together and the Academy and their CEO regain futsal has a dream of putting a million people from non.
Traditional tech backgrounds to work in tech sales in the next 10 years. And SV Academy essentially creates job ready SDRs. So they take people from all walks of life, um, and put them through a 12 week, essentially SDR bootcamp, where they learn about prospecting. They learned about leads or revenue processes.
They learn scripts. They learn how to handle the objections and they [00:39:00] learn some tools. How do you CRM? How do you use video and so on? So when they come to you as candidates, they already have this foundation. And then what you have to do is teach them your company, but you're not teaching them how to be an SDR, which is so amazing.
And our entire SDR team is comprised of SD Academy graduates. And, you know, as the Academy, places, these people with them, they make their money on that placement. A very nice reciprocal thing. We're just about to hire. Five more. And, you know, we call it SCA and say, Hey guys, we're ready to hire more.
They'll send us over 15 to 20 candidates and we'll put them through the interview process and we'll come up with five offers in a matter of a couple of weeks, we're finding that these folks are ramping very reliable, very reliably in three months, which is really great. And the other part of it is these are not all.
New college grads. Some of them are, um, but many of them have come from adjacent markets before they have sales experience. Like for example, one of our top new SDRs, [00:40:00] she just started in March. She was an Apple sales rep, one of the genius level sales reps in their Manhattan Avenue, 24 hour store. She'd done that for five years.
And she'd been trying to get into tech and she kept being told, well, no, you don't have tech experience. Well, she didn't have software technology, SAS experience, but she sure as heck knew how to sell technical products. Right, right. And deal with customers. And she'd been customer facing all this time and somewhat teach her how to be an SDR.
And she's going to get promoted out into the sales Oregon and matter of a year, probably. So if you think about that population, And you know, many of these folks are first generation college graduates also, which brings an entirely different level of motivation and background mindset, growth mindset.
That is just so key. And it's automatic diversification based on how they pull in all of their fellows. So, you know, I am really excited about that. And with so many, it was wanting to diversify our workforce. I often hear from other leaders. [00:41:00] Yeah. But you know, the candidate pool, all I get is white men. So, you know, that's what I'm hiring.
And it's like, no, no, no. You just need to know where to hunt. Right. Where do you go find these candidates? You partner with someone like Silicon Valley Academy. So sp.academy, go check them out. And I couldn't be happier with the results.
Ian Faison: [00:41:16] Let's get into our next segment, the dust up. This is about healthy tension. And that's maybe with your board, with your sales team, to your competitors, or just anyone else, have you had a memorable desktop in your career?
Tracy Eiler: [00:41:32] Oh, God. Yeah, I have a doozy. I mean, I have a bunch, but the biggest doozy was I had taken my very first CMS on the job. So this was about no 11 years ago now. And I joined a software company that was about 15 million in revenue, unstructured database, highly technical product. I had worked for the CEO before and I had known that he had chewed up and spit out.
I think it was. Or predecessors in the matter [00:42:00] of like two days and after three years and there's story about why all that happened and so on. But I had my eyes wide open about that and I had met the CRO and I thought, yeah, I can work with this guy. You know, we'll be some potty coat. Things will work out fine.
The mistake I made was I didn't meet his lieutenants. And there were four regional sales VPs, each one of them, or, sorry, not regional. They were industry specific sales, CPS, public sector, financial services, media, and then a catch all that we call the enterprise and those folks that they happen to be all men really hated marketing.
And I, you know, I can't understate. The detest that they had for marketing, they didn't trust marketing. They, there had been such turnover in, in that CMO ranks. That they had literally told their teams, like don't pay attention to marketing we're on our own. And I didn't know any of that. You know, I knew that there had been turnover in the CMOs seat, but I didn't realize the level of detest and mistrust that there [00:43:00] was.
And I, you know, I'm like second day on the job and these four books all came to corporate and I walked into the room to meet them. And I'm also. Right. I got my very best outfit on and I'm, you know, smiling, my big smile. You walk over. And I was sitting at this table and they wouldn't even acknowledge my presence or shake my hand.
I am not kidding. It was just like the most awful experience. And my life sort of flashed before me, like, Oh my God, what do I do? Right. Like, do I just kind of walk away and. Try and figure out a way to build the relationship and some voice. It just came up in me and I just thought I'll big sister on them.
And I remember saying something seriously, this is how it's going to be. You guys aren't even gonna look at me. You're not going to have the courtesy to shake my hand. Like I get it. You guys marketing has let you down. I get that you don't trust the organization, but if you don't work with me and agree to give me a chance, you're going to be talking to number six in a matter of six months.
So what's it going to be? And that was the right attitude to take [00:44:00] with them. Cause it kind of, you know, embarrassed seeing them just a little opened up the door enough. Yeah. To see that I had a backbone, but that I was there to partner with them and it took a little while to show them, you know, that marketing could deliver value.
But I did that with my listening. Right. It was. What do you guys need? What do you think you need? Where are your problems? And it turned out that one of their biggest problems was reference selling. And, you know, we sold very, very large deals and where, you know, references that looked like the same industry and a leadership profile and project type and so on was really, really critical.
So that was the first thing we tackled. And then that went along I'm way to repairing the relationship. But that was an astounding, astounding moment to me.
Ian Faison: [00:44:42] A great desktop. I would not want to, uh, to cross you, Tracy. That is for sure. I would definitely, it could be, uh, no matter what the conversation is, I'm raising my hand to shake your hand as quick as possible. Cause I don't want to be on the other end.
Tracy Eiler: [00:44:58] Well, you know, I have [00:45:00] really high empathy for the sales leaders and I think it goes back to my time as an SDR when I was 16. No kidding. Cause I got exposure to a whole variety of sales leaders in that company. A lot of them would come over to my family's house on Friday nights. Cause my dad happened to work in that same business.
That's how I got my, how I got the door opens for me there. So these sales leaders would come over and my parents would girls steaks and, you know, they would drink their martinis and their beers and commiserate with one another about their hideous travel schedule and the end of quarter pressure and all the rest of it.
And I just really came to have very high empathy for what it takes to carry a number more than half of your compensation tied to your own performance and fast forward. Now to my husband, as a sales leader and it, and this is a little known secret, Ian. He was one of those sales VPs who wouldn't shake my hand
Ian Faison: [00:45:54] Is that true? Really?
Tracy Eiler: [00:45:55] a hundred percent, a hundred percent.
That's how we met. Yep. [00:46:00] That's how we met. And we became really good friends and then we fell in love. Um, and so 10 years later, yeah, we're together. That's the punchline, the story. It's almost like a movie script.
Ian Faison: [00:46:12] No kidding. That's great. Well, I will have to work on that next, the Tracy movie script where, uh, or you're combating evil sales reps, and then, you know, and then you turn them, so it's, it's good to go. Like a secret agent.
Tracy Eiler: [00:46:26] Yeah. I mean, you really, I think marketers have to be diplomats. You really have to use your diplomacy skills to listen to sales, get inside their heads and then figure out how. Not only to help them be successful in do programs that they think will work, but then also prescribe, you know, what's going to improve things at the same time and it's a very delicate dance, not to be an order taker, but to be service oriented at the same time, it's an, a really important skill.
Ian Faison: [00:46:56] Okay, let's get into our quick hits. These are [00:47:00] quick questions, quick answers. Just like how quickly you could talk to someone on your website with qualified.com, which you know, this you're a qualified customer. So I don't need to tell you, but for our listeners, go to qualifying.com. They're the presenting sponsor of the show.
We love them. Check them out your prospects. You're on your site right now. You can talk to them in real time. qualified.com quick hits. Tracy, are you ready? Number one, what hobby or habit have you picked up during shelter in place?
Tracy Eiler: [00:47:29] I have become the master at lemon cake. I think I'm on my ninth one. It's just yellow box cake myths with the zest of six lemons, ideally Meyer and lemon juice instead of water and an additional egg. And it's fabulous.
Ian Faison: [00:47:46] My mother made lemon squares just last night for her birthday, which is funny cause she made it. But I love a good lemon tree. If you weren't a CML, what do you think you'd be doing?
Tracy Eiler: [00:47:56] Oh, my gosh. I have mad love for Rachel Maddow. [00:48:00] I would so want to be a journalist, somebody who's studying politics and social issues, and then bringing that story back to a community. Yeah, I fan girl on her big time. So I'd want to be her.
Ian Faison: [00:48:13] What about a favorite book or podcast or show that you've been bingeing?
Tracy Eiler: [00:48:16] Oh, my gosh, there are a lot. My husband and I are really into right now, the Perry Mason, uh, uh, redo that's. I think it's on HBO is so good. And it's beautifully shot. I mean, the sets are amazing, but it's really fun to have this new storyline that a re-imagining of the Perry, Mason defense attorney, origin story, and Matthew Reese is so good in it.
I mean, it's the, the, the characters are great. It's really a good show.
Ian Faison: [00:48:49] Couldn't agree more. It's unbelievably good. Two of my favorite actors on, uh, on the planet are the two leads. Um, and I know I can, I [00:49:00] can never pronounce her name. But a Tatiana like Maslin knee or whatever, uh, who play who's in orphan black is like, she's such a great actress. And, um,
Tracy Eiler: [00:49:09] Which one is she, is she, is she Della?
Ian Faison: [00:49:11] she's the, yeah. The blonde lead for
Tracy Eiler: [00:49:15] Oh, the evangelists evangelists. Okay. Yeah. Oh yeah. She's really good.
Ian Faison: [00:49:19] Yeah. Her, uh, that show orphan black. She plays like six different characters that are all her. It's
Tracy Eiler: [00:49:25] Oh, okay. Didn't know
Ian Faison: [00:49:27] Yeah, you should check out orphan black. It's great. If you like her, she's a great show.
Tracy Eiler: [00:49:32] I'll do that.
Ian Faison: [00:49:33] Not a quick answer on my part, but I just, I love that. So good. Okay. How about, do you have a favorite quote or phrase or something that gets you going gets excited?
Tracy Eiler: [00:49:44] There's music that does, I would say. And it all goes back to the soundtrack between the summer of before freshman year in college. In fact, I started a LinkedIn thread asking people, you know, what was their Anthem music that [00:50:00] summer because good credit the comedian, Chris rock has this awesome saying that basically says, you know, The music that you love when you're 15, 16, 17 years old as the music you'll love for the rest of your life.
And, and for me, it's Prince and the purple rain album. That was the summer of 1984, uh, summer before I went to Michigan for undergrad. And, you know, there's the let's go crazy song is really amazing. And baby, I'm a star. Those two, just really get my heart pumping.
Ian Faison: [00:50:29] You are a founding member of women in revenue, an amazing organization. I don't know when I became a subscriber, but honestly, a magazine is great. Everything is great. Everyone should check out women in revenue. It's just women in revenue.org, but I have to ask what's next. It seems like there's just so much on the horizon for women in revenue.
Tracy Eiler: [00:50:49] It really is. And, you know, we started as kind of a small but mighty organization in the fall of 2018. And in the last six months, membership has [00:51:00] exploded to more than 2,600 across the country. And, you know, the. The pandemic has driven membership. You know, we have members now all over the country and North America.
In fact, we have quite a few members in Canada and word's getting around, right? So this is a great community or for women like me and women, like a lot of your readers and listeners, we, uh, we have a great magazine and very large quarterly events. In fact, the next one is coming up September 10th. And I'm putting that together.
That's all about diversity and revenue and we have a mentor program. And so not only do we offer free mentorship, but a call out to you personally, and all of your listeners to become mentors. And, you know, you don't have to have 20 years of experience to be in mentor on a topic. And it's a really great way to give back and also a great place to recruit right back to that diversity.
We all want to have more women in our organizations and especially in leadership. And that's a stated goal of many CEOs come check out. Women in [00:52:00] revenue is a great place to post jobs and really network.
Ian Faison: [00:52:03] Last question. What question do you never get asked that you wish you were asked more often?
Tracy Eiler: [00:52:07] The question that I wish people would ask more often is what motivates you today versus earlier in your career. And for me, it's making things grow. I really turned a corner, let's say in the last three years, Kind of after the time that I wrote my book, but also just as I've gotten more involved in organizations like Silicon Valley Academy and women in revenue and inside view customers, helping people grow, expand their horizons, helping find and develop the next generation of great marketers is really the thing that gets me really fired up.
Ian Faison: [00:52:45] Well, that's it. That's all we got for today. Tracy. Thanks so much for joining as always in our listeners should check out insideview.com. Any final thoughts, anything to plug.
Tracy Eiler: [00:52:52] No, just thank you. You're really doing a surface with dementia and visionaries. I think it's great. There's so many good marketing podcasts, but they're [00:53:00] very broad. Right? So concentrating on this particular topic is really, really key.
Ian Faison: [00:53:05] Yeah, well, we love doing it. And our, uh, our guests and listeners are, are awesome. So thanks to you, Tracy. You're the best and we'll talk soon. [00:54:00]