BONUS: Techstack Roundup
On this season of the podcast, we’ve talked to some of the brightest minds and key voices in revenue operations.
Welcome to Rise of RevOps.
I'm your business on CEO of Caspian Studios.
On this season of the podcast, we've talked to some of the brightest minds and
key voices
in business and revenue ops.
Today, we're bringing you a bonus episode where our recent guests spotlight the
best
tools in their tech stacks.
Let's begin with Sean Hiss, VP of Go to Market Operations, who gives us the low
down on what
kind of technology is changing the game at WECA.
The other thing that's really interesting about our company is we have
embarrassment
of riches from a technology stack.
We have just a ton of best or breed stuff, frankly, probably more than we can
consume
at this stage of like kind of at our size, but a lot of amazing stuff.
Depending on the hat I'm wearing, I'll go deeper in one versus the other.
But, you know, I was thinking about this and here's where I spend most of my
time, right?
So we're Salesforce Shop.
So obviously a lot of time in Salesforce, a lot of spreadsheets, a lot of dash
boards
and reporting as we go through.
I actually start my morning in Salesforce.
So I don't know if that on the degree of nerdiness that makes me or not for
this audience,
probably not so nerdy.
We've recently implemented Clary.
And so I really love Clary as well for my sellers because I think it's got a
great mobile
experience.
It puts the keeping updated forecasting and opportunity management kind of
right at their
fingertips.
It's all things, mostly things you can do in Salesforce, but it's just making
it that
much easier for the team as we go through.
Also we're a HubSpot shop from a marketing automation standpoint.
So a lot of time in HubSpot.
And gain site is what we're using, implementing for our customer success team
and kind of thinking
about that, our customer cockpit or customer dashboard of what that looks like.
In addition, a couple of the other side tools we've been using have put in
recently also
give a shout out for Qualified.
We're a recent qualified customer.
Think of them about four or five months in now.
Really amazing how they're tying together a data set with the visitors and IP
matching.
And for me, when I thought about lead flow and how do we best enable our sales
team and
getting our customers on the digital buyers journey, it's been an incredible
tool for us.
So been really happy with that.
And the other one I'm looking at is atrium.
And again, that's a kind of a BI tool that lets me understand where my sales
teams are
spending their time, what's the kind of effort versus reward in terms of
pipeline build,
efficacy, activity, those kinds of things.
So lots of tools on top of those, but that's probably my main kind of table of
stuff I'm
interacting with on a daily basis.
Solid tips from Sean.
Next up, we hear from Mark Chocolate, head of revenue operations at Embrace.
Who knows your tech stack is key to automation.
The tech stack is more than just cool tools.
The tech stack is the foundation of your data.
And in many ways, the foundation of many process that can be automated.
And so it's more than just a CRM and a marketing automation system or a ticket
ing system.
We use Marketo, we use Salesforce.
But we also look for tools that in many ways are add-ons that can't be maybe
leveraged
natively in Salesforce.
And the goal of doing this is to ensure reps and users like myself aren't doing
a ton of
manual work.
One goal of revenue operations is always to automate, make more efficient.
And so when we can use leveraged tools that create contacts in Salesforce or
write back
activity in Salesforce, show us intent of people who are on our website.
Automatically assign tickets.
It's something that helps expand capacity for the team, which means we can do
more or
focus on other things like actually going into the data and finding insights
that can
shift and shape how we do business.
I will definitely get on the bandwagon of a lot of rev-ups for folks who are
using
gong or a choreist or even, I mean, not related but hot-reach is also great in
terms of automated
tasks.
But to have a tool to give you insights really into the sales call and to tell
you what
the rep is saying and coach them live.
It has been pretty useful.
And in fact, we were able to utilize, we track certain words, sales reps say,
or the
prospect says, and we call it out on the call or feed it back into Salesforce
reports.
To try to see if there's any sort of variable or keyword or some sort of
indicator that can
help us on the sales call in terms of converting it to the next stage or even
closing.
Next up, let's hear from Matt Buren, VP of Global Sales and CX Operations at B
ambora,
and a new qualified customer.
So qualified, new customer, but I will give them credit where credit is due.
I have never had a tool launch without a huge hiccup like we have.
We launched last week, it's been live, it's phenomenal.
It's everything that I thought it would be.
So massive shout out.
I'm not getting paid for that comment, by the way.
We love to hear it.
So the big ones for us, obviously Salesforce first CRM, we use HubSpot for
marketing outbound.
We've got some really cool process between Salesforce and HubSpot where we're
actually
ingesting Bambora data and building scores.
So we've got three different main scores that we use, an account score, an
intense score,
and an engagement score.
It's a combination of HubSpot data, Salesforce data, and Bambora's own data.
So obviously Bambora is part of our stack because if it wasn't that'd be crazy
talk.
Sales navigator, gong.
We use outreach as our SEP.
And then we've got for the CX team, we use a tool called Plan Hat that's really
great
that helps with lifecycle adoption, health scores, and things of that nature.
That's our core stack and then cognizant from a prospecting standpoint.
Next up is Mary D. Alessandro, VP of revenue and revenue operations at Infobip.
She takes a compartmentalized approach to the tools that are helping her
organization
evolve.
So I would group them into three areas.
The first one is Salesforce to monitor the health of our future business.
So by looking at leads, pipeline, and revenue forecast.
Within Salesforce, I also used two other tools.
One is called Altify for account planning and the other one is called exactly
for the
revenue forecast.
Then the second area would be our own proprietary tools to monitor the health
of our current
business.
And so there I look at revenue, gross profit, gross margin, and net retention
rate.
And the third one, I would like to say LinkedIn, which I believe is becoming
more and more
and important tool for businesses.
I personally use it to monitor how our business could evolve in the very near
future by keeping
the polls on what is happening in the marketplace, not only to our customer,
prospect, partners,
and competitors, but also looking at all the new technologies that are coming
up and thinking
how we could leverage those technologies to give our customers the ability to
offer even
more connected, personalized, and on-demand experiences.
And also to me, it's very important to keep up to date with current trends.
How only to be able to better advise our customers on their existing needs and
challenging them
on new ones that they may not be aware of, but also to make sure that we keep
up with
those trends and trying to anticipate some of them to be able to pull ourselves
ahead
of the innovation curve as much as possible.
Daniel Gray is the Chief Revenue Officer at Blend Localization.
He tells us what's in his tech stack and some of the new tools that he's
looking to
add.
I've got the base.
I'm Salesforce.com.
As a CRM.
I'm in HubSpot for marketing automation.
I'm actually, I suppose, maybe hacking HubSpot for sales engagement.
One of the more recent tools that we deployed within the last year was Zoom
info.
So that's been a game changer for us.
Now I do have, as I'm sure, many of the providers for data, they have this
challenge.
When you get outside the United States, the quality of data, the constraints
with GDPR,
and so the quality of data, say, within me and then even with APAC, it's a lot
harder
to get the same quality of data and even the intent functionality that Zoom
info brings,
which is really, really cool.
And then I've got a combination of Zoom, LinkedIn Navigator, DocuSign, Unbound,
Microsoft
Teams, the whole rest of that for execution.
But I'd say the big, big tools that my reps use and my SalesOps RevOps use is
Salesforce
Tableau, Zoom info.
And then we also have our own backend platform that we're all interconnected
with.
And then I'm happy to comment on tools that I'm evaluating and looking to add,
but that's
what my stack looks like now.
Yeah.
What are you looking at?
What are you looking to add and why?
So I've evaluated sales engagement tools like Outreach, Sales Loft, and that
sort of thing.
I'm quite interested in vatting those types of tools.
I'm also interested in tools like Connect and Sell that allow me to produce a
lot more
calls, connects, direct phone engagement with customers.
I think that we have such an over-reliance on email these days, mass emailing,
cadence
sequences, and it's just a lot of email.
And at the end of the day, it's this type of personal relationship that makes
such a difference
when you're selling it.
I don't much care if you're selling services and are high-tech products, the
ability to
engage with customers and prospects on the phone, and even real-time chat,
things like
that.
But the next ones would be things like sales engagement and then some level of
just increasing
my calls and connects.
Counseling is partner and head of revenue excellence at Sapphire Ventures.
He prioritizes tools that help make you the most effective version of yourself.
The thing is that there's a ton of tool proliferation these days, meaning the
tech stack that I
had back when I was at ArcSight, perpetual software days, which is a while back
, I mean,
I could probably put it on a single page and showcase it.
And I did, and my road shows and whatnot during the HP acquisition.
Nowadays, I see some of these tech stacks and the best and brightest of the
respective tools
you need, and it's massive.
So the way I like to think about it is it really depends from persona to
persona within
a company.
So myself as a go-to-market executive, my tool stack, transparently, is
different than
what a seller will care about.
My tool stack is all about visibility and proactive visibility.
So what I tell my teams is, look, I'll spend most of my time in our Tableau
dashboards
that connect everything from top of the funnel down to all the various data
points we have
from the disparate tools that we have available.
What I want is a single pane of glass to be able to look at all of this and
understand
how the business is trending and flowing.
So for me personally, visualization tools, that's where I spend most of my time
It's a Tableau, a snowflake.
Now great tools like qualified and others, right?
What they're also trying to do is I have that single pane of glass, so some of
those
eventually will probably replace because there's very specific use cases I'm
trying
to solve for as well.
And funnel and funnel progression, understanding the funnel all the way from
intent down, really
meaningful as well.
But for me, it really is about decision support tools.
My teams, right?
If I think about sales, marketing, CS, I see a lot of them living in their
workflow
tools or their process tools.
So I have seen sales engagement tools and things of that effect be really high
on the
list, right?
So the outreaches of the world, where they do their day-to-day jobs, right?
That is super meaningful for them.
You know, gong and chorus.
There's all these other tools out there that help you understand if you're sort
of the
most effective version of yourself.
So those folks are spending more time in like their work tools, their workflow
tools, the
things that help them run their day-to-day.
Although we also try to get them to be very data-driven as well and have a good
insight
into the reports and dashboards that they need.
So it really just depends on persona to persona.
But that's how I try to look at it.
And ultimately, when you add it all up, you do get that big smattering of, you
know,
tools that every company has at late stage.
It's just a matter of using them effectively.
Aja Corbett is Senior Revenue Operations Manager.
Go to market at Bread Financial.
She joined us to reveal the tools she can't live without.
Well, in my toolkit, Salesforce, CRM, HubSpot, Marketing Automation Platform,
DialPad for
Dialer, InsightSquared for visualization, data, Zoom for meetings.
We're rolling out a CI for conversational intelligence.
Sales engagement platform, groove.
So I think outside of the brands, the companies, the core pieces, you probably
need CRM, Marketing
Automation, Sales Engagement Platform, and an enrichment tool because you need
contact
data, obviously.
So yeah, I think those are the top four.
And I'm partial to Salesforce.
I know that HubSpot is up and coming with their CRM functionality.
So if you're a smaller company or you have less budget, you could use that.
It's really about setting the tools up correctly to support business process
and not the other
way around buying the tool first because of shiny marketing, but not
understanding if
it's going to fit your use case or the functionalities even there.
So I think those are the core, but like my favorite tool.
Yeah, that's what was going to be my next thing.
I was going to say, what's new?
What can you not live without?
I can't live without, but I am living without it for right now is lean data.
The three time user of lean data, I have self implemented it before the company
is a revenue
operations thought leader.
Evan Leang is a thought leader of revenue operations.
I respect their ethos a lot and the product is good.
So they're a lead routing.
That's how they kind of started out lead routing and lead to account matching.
And it's a Salesforce app.
So unfortunately it doesn't work for other CRMs, but they have really increased
the functionality
over the years.
There's so many really cool things that you can do outside of just lead to
account matching
can do territory management.
They have a feature called the list analyzer.
So you can check for duplicates before you upload a list.
And I use that for when marketing would have events and then they're like, okay
, here
for the event, can you upload these as campaign members?
Like, okay, great.
Do these people exist already as leads and contacts?
And then it gives you the Salesforce ID.
If you use outreach and there's an outreach partner integration that you can
use lean
data to trigger sequences versus the triggers and outreach, which are more
limited.
Now I'm getting nerdy and technical, but outreach triggers are a little bit
more limited
with the criteria that you can use to trigger stuff.
It's just like a smaller scope of things you can do, right?
So the automation is not as powerful on that side.
But lean data is and lean data sits inside Salesforce.
So you can build it all in Salesforce and the routing, like you can have
complex routing
rules or is round robin.
There's like work load balancing.
So you can say if someone has too many leads, like pass it to the next person,
you can set
that up.
Yeah, I mean, there's, I can't say enough good things about lean data.
Adam Tuddle is the director of revenue operations at Active Campaign.
And he reflects on being his own biggest customer.
Well, like I mentioned, we are one of our biggest users in the world, which is
pretty
cool.
So from the size of our sales team to the amount of automations that we use,
like at
any given point, we'll have somewhere between 2,500 and 3,000 automations
pumping through
our account that are live.
So we, we use our tool on a very high, high level for our own purposes.
So Active Campaign is the number one tool that we use day in and day out.
And I know that obviously, of course, like you all use it a ton, but you're
also the
best at it.
When you say that number of automate, I mean, that's a huge number.
That's a huge amount.
And I know that you have like, you know, 100,000 plus customers and all that
sort of stuff,
but like what is in all those automations?
You guys are breaking into bite-sized chunks, so it's not just rev-ops.
It's our education team and our marketing team and our, I mean, we send things
to internal
people, right?
It's all of those pieces put together.
The thing that I find really fascinating about marketing automation tools as a
whole, right?
So let's be agnostic to Active Campaign for just a second is that a lot of
users, when
they hear marketing automation, they think, "Oh, that sends email."
If you were to break down, let's just say 2,000 automations and you were to
break those
down probably only a couple dozen to a couple hundred of them, right?
So let's say a higher dozen.
So one to 200, send emails, maybe 10%.
The rest are actually doing a lot of work behind the scenes to manage our data,
to build
funnels for our sales teams, to correct things.
The mistakes happen.
There's a lot going on behind the scenes and that is where that number really
grows because
you might have a lot of micro automations, which is an Adam Tuttle original
coin term,
but micro automations that really are there just to do one very simple task.
Like, "Oh, this happened?
Add a tag."
And so there's a lot of those and when you stack them up, then you get
thousands.
Where are the rest of your sales marketing and your CSP people living and what
metrics
matter to you?
We use Looker and like Snowflake, manage our data and then Looker helps
aggregate that
and make it pretty.
That's probably where a lot of those teams tend to live.
It's taking data out of our tools, whether it be, we have some homegrown
systems that
do a lot of our processing for billing and different things and connecting that
data to
data inside of the CRM.
So if I think about it from a RevOps perspective, it's looking at things like,
"Okay, how many
trials came in and how many deals did we create out of those trials for our SDR
team to try
to qualify?"
If we see a huge gap because we know that we only strip out a small amount of
potential
opportunities, we don't let anything that has an active campaign email address
go through
as an opportunity for a rep to work.
That doesn't make any sense.
So we take those out, but we should have a very small margin of, "Should we
basically
the same?"
And so we're always looking at things like that, especially on the sales side,
looking
at how many people are progressing through the pipeline, like what are our
qualification
rates?
What are the things that we're doing?
And I would say that that actually is similar to what marketing is doing as
well.
Again, we talked about this relationship with marketing ops, RevOps, at least
in the context
of active campaign.
Renee Cinque is the one driving those trials.
But if none of their trials are converting to leads, then that's a problem for
them as
well.
It's not just something that matters to sales.
Renee Cinque is head of revenue operations at RutterStack.
And she has a new addition to her tech stack that we would love to hear.
Qualified is the most recent addition to our tool shed.
So we do use Qualified for our marketing site.
We're evaluating adding it in the application as well on certain pages.
We'll use that for conversation marketing as well as insights and signals for
our outbound
team and our account executive.
It's been very impactful for us so far.
If I laundry list out the big players, I'll start at the top of the funnel
where we use
RutterStack.
So RutterStack is what we use to get our leads in from our application, from
our marketing
website, and track as well all of the interactions that those de-anonymized
folks have with our
website.
The same way that qualified, right, when someone puts their email address into
the qualified
bot, you're always able to tell that that person coming back in the future, we
do the
same thing on our marketing website, right?
So if someone gives us their email in a demo request or to register for content
marketing
webinar, we'll cookie them, right?
And we'll track how that prospect is engaging with our content going forward.
We'll actually also use RutterStack to instantly enrich those or near instantly
enrich those
with ClearBit.
So qualified also leverages ClearBit, so we do have a good consistency, at
least in terms
of MQL logic and how we think about what a qualified versus unqualified lead is
between
qualified and our marketing site.
As well, we leverage Tableau for a lot of the usage insights, analytics, just
different
go-to-market roll-ups.
So yeah, I think that's like the tool belt for us at RutterStack.
Pete Ainsett is the chief revenue officer at Fordroc.
He prioritizes tech that supports the strategic methodology there.
We got a lot of things in our tool shed at Fordroc actually.
And again, growing company there needs, there's plenty of opportunities.
I think it probably starts with the, and not even necessarily tool, but a
methodology.
So we use MedPIC from a sales methodology perspective.
And when I got here, there really wasn't a ton of rigor around sales
methodology.
And I thought it's something that we've had to put in place.
But once you put a methodology in place, how do you then drive that?
And how do you programatize that?
And that's with tools.
Salesforce is our system of record.
And really we're evolving our deployment of Salesforce constantly to trying to
make it
more of a data-driven tool.
It takes the transactions.
But then how do we get that data out in a way that we can make decisions?
One actual Salesforce plug-in that we have is an application called ClosePlan
that sits
right on top of Salesforce.
And that helps with the discipline around MedPIC and some of the pieces that we
were
able then to incorporate and make sure that, hey, we just don't have the record
there,
but now we have some of the strategic pieces on top of that.
And that's been really instrumental in making sure that we were tracking and
have a data-driven
approach to managing and maintaining all of the data that you need around a
sales methodology.
I can tell you the last couple of years on the opposite of things, we've really
gotten
much more focused on on leveraging some tools.
We put Tableau in place for real-time visibility.
Something that we absolutely needed.
I think we weren't putting our manager in the best position to make those
decisions,
those data-driven decisions.
Spreadsheets have their place in every company, but we had to have a more
proactive tool that
we could really manage the business consistently.
So Tableau's gone in.
We use Anaplan really to do everything from forecasting to territory planning,
multi-year
modeling.
And again, that's really helped us, especially territories.
Your growing company went from 50 to 100, 150 reps that we're going to have.
How do you come up with territories that make sense?
Do you have the right number of people in a certain region?
Do you go into another region?
Can all that data-driven and Anaplan's been a great way for us to centralize
that and
have a consistent approach to it?
Daniel Bornstein is a VP of growth at GenPACT.
And he considers automation versus personalization when customizing his tech
stack.
So I won't bore you with everything that's in our tool shed.
Instead, I'll answer the question a little bit differently.
In terms of how I think about what should be in a tool shed, we use kind of the
common
tools that you would think a company like ours of our size, or even frankly, a
B2B
SaaS company would use, for example, Salesforce or Marketo as part of Sales
force, right?
Or tools I qualified.
So I think we're very much trying to be on the cutting edge of what we need to
license
to make our business a modern sales organization and so on and so forth.
But I will tell you two things.
One is my approach traditionally, because I built a number of tech stacks when
I was
more in startups, is I always look at anything licenseable or any suite of
tools within a
must have or a nice to have bucket.
If you're nice to have, probably you're not going to want to contract with us
if you're
must have your must have.
And I like Salesforce only.
I know it's so obvious, but I'll give you like a very, very short anecdote.
A year ago I was visiting my dad and my dad is a retail investor.
And he invested a number of companies, like for example, in this particular day
, he said,
what about Salesforce?
So he knows Salesforce.
He knows the financial metrics.
You can see the growth of the stock.
It doesn't necessarily understand the business.
He says, should I buy Salesforce?
Now I can give my dad any piece of advice I want on Salesforce because I'm not
an employee
of Salesforce.
There's no moral hazard there.
So I explained to him this paradigm of companies licensing software in nice to
have versus
must have.
And then I explained to him that Salesforce has this thing called ARR.
And this is what ARR is.
And they're so sticky because you have to customize and you have to build your
own instance of
Salesforce.
And they have all these other technologies like qualified, for example, that
bolt onto
Salesforce.
So effectively their customer churn has got to be one of the lowest in the
industry.
So like, yes, it's probably a pretty safe stock to buy.
So that's kind of my view on licensing.
And then one of the things that I think is interesting and I don't mean to be
controversial,
but this is a podcast about revenue operations.
There's been some debate over the last few years on personalization versus
automation.
Right?
And what I mean by that is in your sales go to market.
We all know people are listening to this podcast know who the players are, but
there's a set
of companies that create what I call sales ESPs.
They don't call themselves sales.
ESPs I'm calling them sales ESPs because essentially what you're doing is you
're using
a marketing approach to sales.
Instead of doing one to one, you're doing one to many.
Now I'm not criticizing these companies because I think what these companies
did is genius
because they're doing well.
They found product market fit and they found customers who are looking at the
promise of
how do I make myself force more efficiently.
But in the act of using automation, again, we're a company that embraces
automation and
we do it on behalf of our customers.
But where does it make sense and where it doesn't, it makes sense.
So if you're treating your sales prospects like you're treating your marketing
prospects,
I think it's a race to the bottom.
I think people are trying to find what is that latest technology or what is
that latest
trick to get a higher conversion rate and they're sending these cadences and
they're
semi-personalizing them and guess what?
People are smart, right?
Decision makers at companies are smart.
And when they're getting an email, which feels impersonal, where somebody didn
't talk
about their business, their issues, something that feels authentic, they're not
going to
respond.
So it's no wonder when people start talking about, I have a 3% conversion rate
on sales
emails like, wow, that's amazing.
Because it's a little bit, if everybody's doing it, if everybody's automating
this, it's
really no different.
You might as well just send emails from our keto and those are going to have
lower conversion
rates as well, depending on what it is and maybe it's promoting an event, has
higher
conversion rates.
So I think about this personalization versus automation as being somebody that
's worked
in tech companies that wants to license the best technology as a company where
we use
technology to help digitize our client's business to help them digitally
transform.
And where does it become too much?
So for us, again, and this is my own personal opinion, when we're reaching out
to potential
prospects, everything is hyper-personalized.
Of course, easy for me to say because as we discussed, we're not going after
thousands
of companies at scale.
But if everybody's doing it, how effective is it going to be?
So I think I'm not trying to pick on these cohort of companies and I'm not
trying to
pick on SaaS companies that use this kind of sales automation.
And I think by the way, it certainly works.
Like if you're using it for inbound SMB advertising with tens of thousands of
customers at scale,
you need automation, but there is a rate of diminishing returns there.
And I don't feel like that's debated in nothing in industry.
First in Gray is CCO at Shift Paradigm.
He shares the CDP tools he's excited to add to the tech stack.
Of course, you've got the basics, right?
Like I think most organizations have a marketing automation platform and the CR
M these days,
so we've always been a Marchetto and a Salesforce shop.
I think the last time we did an analysis, we've got over 60 tools in the stack.
We get a lot of technology, obviously, for our partnerships and we've got some
great
partners out there and a robust network of those folks.
But I would say at the end of the day, the stuff that we can't live without,
certainly
Marchetto Salesforce, Sixth Sense does all of our segmentation.
It does all of our scoring.
It does all of our digital ads.
A lot of our ABM metrics reside within that platform.
We absolutely are an account-based go-to-market motion.
We want to be focusing on our ideal clients only, so it makes a ton of sense
for us.
Certain mail, we do a decent amount of print mail, so we do a use sendoso for
that from
a criticality standpoint.
Tons of little widgets like LeanData that help us route and earlier segment
data within
CRM.
That's the core stack.
Any tools you've been trying out recently, something new, something cool?
Yeah, a lot of the new stuff that we're looking towards is CDP-focused.
Our friends over at Tillium, we love their product.
We also love, I think, any marketing department these days should have a snow
flake instance
that they don't already have one, just in terms of getting access to metrics
that make
sense that span marketing, sales, customer success.
We see a lot of that from a customer standpoint as well.
Snowflake has just gotten incredibly popular.
Light that up with an ETL tool to extract data with a visualization layer in
Tableau,
and frankly, a lot of organizations would solve their KPIs and their visibility
challenges
that are created by opinionated software that doesn't necessarily jive from an
architecture
standpoint.
Especially as we're talking about marketing, sales, customer success, bringing
those together,
I'd highly recommend that Orbs explore some sort of data warehouse solution
with a light
ETL and Tableau, Power BI, whatever they have access to for visualization.
I think we get away from a lot of spreadsheets and last minute board decks with
the type of
added-dip toolset.
We hope you enjoyed this bonus episode.
If you'd like to hear the full conversations, I encourage you to listen back to
the earlier
episodes of the podcast, which we'll link up in the show notes.
Thanks again for listening.
I appreciate all of you.
I'm Ian Faizan, CEO of CastMean Studios, and we'll see you next time on Rise of
Red Ops.
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(upbeat music)