Driving Change with Rev Ops
On this episode, we talk to Stephanie about the importance of a learner mindset, why rev ops is essential to driving change within companies of any size, and how to put the infrastructure in place to enable growth and scalability.
Welcome to Raza RevOps, I'm the
CEO of Cast Me In Studios and today I'm
joined by a special guest Stephanie, how are you?
Great, thank you for having you today.
Yeah, excited to have you on the show,
excited to chat about RevOps and all the
cool stuff that you're doing at Okta, so
let's get into it. Tell me first, how did
you get into RevOps? Sure, I actually started
my career far from RevOps, it was actually in IT
for financial services and quickly realized
my passion really lied more on the revenue
side of the house versus cost efficiency
side. I exited that and started to really
focus more on the sales and channel space
and the revenue drivers of most companies
and dived into supporting a lot of different
M&As and that was my first blush, really
driving different change and transformations
for many companies and it was super exciting,
super exciting to see the impact that you can
have really merging different companies
together to get to their ultimate goals
around acceleration or growth and new product
and realized it would be great to get
some operational expertise in the sales
space and the channel space so I actually
found an amazing opportunity at Salesforce,
they were at the time building out marketing
cloud and you are familiar with Salesforce
marketing cloud and it actually created
from three different acquisitions so
really was amazing to leverage the things I
love which is revenue driving, driving
transformation through M&A, I'm building
deeper expertise in the sales ops space.
It was a wild ride, six years later we got to a
billion dollar cloud for mark which was the
goal of those three companies that we
required, then took a lens on how do I
drive more a different type of transformation
at Splunk where they were an on-prem
perpetual shop and moving to the cloud,
that was also a multi-year journey and
four years later we were successfully
transitioned over to the cloud and then
repeating a different type of transformation
here at OFTA today where we're looking at
moving from a single product to a multi-product
platform.
And it's so cool to see that sort of
transformation from finance to revenue
operations and how much change that
you've been able to drive, what is it about
rev ops that sort of allows change to
happen like that I'm curious?
I think rev ops is central to
basically the heart of a company.
We look at everything from a data from a
process from an end-to-end perspective
and I think that that expertise for many
companies is what helps rev ops drive
change for them and change requires having
the right strategy which often is driven
with the data that a rev ops can
bring. Change is driven by having the
right infrastructure and operational
rigor in place which rev ops helps
supports and puts in place.
Change is driven by providing the right
context and enablement which again
rev ops team is central to.
So I think there's lots of aspects of
rev ops and the different functions that
we play and the different things that
we bring to the table that the rev ops
team is just essential to driving
transformation for many companies.
What's your definition of rev ops?
I think for me there's I think of rev ops
in two buckets. There's rev ops that
helps run the business so you think about
having the right data, the right
analysis in place, forecast process,
cadence and then there's the other side
of rev ops that is really touching on
facilitating company pivots.
When we talk about growing from a
private company to a public company
growing from a billion to five billion
these major pivots that companies
make that's where rev ops is there to
kind of self-facilitate have the right
infrastructure have the right rigor in
the business processes to drive those
changes for the company.
I love that and it's not something we've
discussed a ton on the show but in the
modern whether it's tech or b2b or
startup world where pivots are so
important and critical.
That's a really cool idea that a key
cog in the pivot is having rev ops.
That's a great idea.
So back to octa you mentioned the sort
of transformation that you're going
through and how does rev ops play a
role in that and I guess zoomed out
what is octa do for in case someone's
been living under a rock and doesn't
know about octa.
Our tagline is we allow everyone to use
technology safely on any device anywhere
whether that's providing secure access
providing authentication automation
and we provide that on a neutral platform
and we allow folks our companies our
different customer base to leverage that
both internally for their employee base
through our workforce cloud
my identity cloud product or with their
customers in our customer identity
product.
And how have you organized your rev ops team?
I've always thought of rev ops having
two different pillars.
There's a vertical and horizontal
vertical being folks that have really
deep SME expertise whether it's with
the business partners that they support
so whether that is your sales ops
function your partner operations
XDR operations and so on.
And then we have an horizontal
branch that really is chartered to
think more holistically across go to
market across the company to really
think about how do you drive
efficiencies how do you put the right
infrastructure in place so that we can
scale and grow quickly.
And then combining both having that
deep expertise and also having the
horizontal layer is I think what makes
rev ops super powerful and again
helping companies pivot.
And you mentioned sort of the
transformation of going to
multi-product and having that how have
you thought about taking this on
for as a rev ops challenge.
Specifically I think for octa
right what we do from a rev ops
again we support all the run the
business whether it's the UBRs that we
have or comp discussions helping
retire tech then and so on.
But what's different for my team is
we're also looking at how what are the
changes that needs that the company
needs to go through even on the
metrics front right when you go from a
single product to multi-product your
metrics become infinitely more
complicated when you're trying to
track different product families and
puts and takes.
You have to think about how do you
guide in terms of deal structuring
and approaches when you have
multiple products now in your
salesperson's bag versus single.
Even your forecasting cadence right
has to evolve now to really think
about not just hitting the overall
targets but what just the mix on how
to get there.
So those are all the things I think
rev ops does above and beyond kind
of what I would call run the
business activities.
Anything unique about octa's rev ops
team about how you think about rev
ops?
Again I think the differentiation for
me on the team's the rev ops team
that I run is we ask for again those
that deep that they developed these
deep functional expertise with the
business partners.
You're in the same boat with the
sales team you understand exactly what
their drivers are what their
challenges are you're in deep with the
partner team understanding the partner
strategy the implementation the
challenges that they might have
feedback from the partners.
You work with the horizontal teams
there that really think about how do
you incorporate business expertise
into creating a better process a
more scalable process how do you
create automation in your day to day
to really bring efficiency not just
for the go to market operations team
but for all the business partners that
we support.
All right let's get to our first
segment rev opsicles when we talk
about the tough parts of rev ops
what is a transformation that you
driven from the rev ops perspective.
I think I've mentioned there's
cross my career I've done a lot to
support different companies whether
it's a sales source of the
marking cloud trying to combine three
different companies to create that
next billion dollar cloud for sales
force.
Splunk we went from a perpetual on-prem
model to SaaS which I know is the
journey many companies been going
through and octa and you know
going from one product to
multi-product but I think what each
of these companies have gone through
different change and their different
pivots in their life cycle but I
think what makes them what's common
for them is that when they think
about transformation I think there's
three things that all of them have
right first they start with having
clarity and alignment from top to
bottom on what is the change that
we're trying to drive what the
success look like what is the
north star that we're using to
guide every decision we make every
action.
I think each company also has this
commitment to really creating
skill, scalable operations and
infrastructure because change is
hard if you're trying to make
changes while having to still
support a lot of manual processes
and overhead it makes it infinitely
that much harder right and I think
the third is really that we look at
providing everyone enough time and
we're spending enough energy on
change management to make sure
everyone comes along on that
change right that they actually
understand what we're doing
incorporate that into their day to
day actions right and if you don't
actually spend enough time doing
that honestly what ends up
happening is most companies
loses their most valuable resource
which is their employees and time
and frustration and all that other
stuff that goes into that right
it's you think of the employee
hours that you invest in terms of
get salary perspective into that
type of change and like the ROI
has to be great obviously taking
something like going on-prem to
cloud or combining three
different products into one cloud
or things like that which are
like massive revenue driving
initiatives it's necessary for the
business to continue to thrive to
be able to do that stuff you're
not worried about the investment
in time but of course it's going
to be massive do you track that
stuff as part of your deliverables
like how much time is being spent
on this i think what we really
track when we think about
transformation is success metrics
like most transformation takes
years quarters years to occur right
the marketing cloud was over to hit
their billion mark was almost over
a six-year time frame the journey
from on-prem perpetual to cloud
took spunk almost about four years
to get there and in octa we're
still on this journey today
so i'd say the metric that i anchor
on is really not time but those
incremental success metrics that we
know that shows us that we're going
in the right direction right because
you want to make sure again you're
moving an entire organization like
shifting a cruise ship right almost
if you want to make an analogy there
you got to make sure that that there
are those intramilestones that
indicate to the organization as a
whole that hey we're on the right
path and i think it's also
important to spend a lot
time thinking about like what do you
look at from an adoption metric
standpoint how are you testing to
make sure people are actually
absorbing and understanding the
change and then last but not
least you measure the trend line in
your financials right like we said
every one of these pivots is
really supposed to be this
boost and acceleration in growth
and yes change is disruptive so you
might see a dip at the beginning
of your change journey but as people
come along as you're starting to see
this success and you're actually
transforming your organization
you should start to see that reflected
in your financials do you seek out the
companies with the big problems
because it seems not that big problem
is not the right way that's but big
opportunities because it seems like
you have so much strategy in the way
that you think about go to market
and the way that you think about
ops and optimizing that sort of
stuff it's not just your whatever if
the ktllo type tasks like hey no i
want to
seek this sort of institutional change
because and then and when you do
something like that and you do pick
something i'm curious like
how much of that getting that cross-functional
alignment across teams and how much of
it is on you just shoulder the burden
of the huge project
to answer your first part i think what
i go back to i look for companies that
allow me to
continue to focus on the thing i'm
passionate about revenue drivers right
what are the things that's really
going to help accelerate growth quickly
which again massive transformation and
pivots tend to do that and yes those
tend to be bigger longer term
projects to take on and as you mentioned
cross-functional
i would say it's not on any individual
to shoulder that cross-functional burden
it is actually on the entire company
to make sure that cross-functionally
we're in line like we said any
transformation starts of having clarity
and alignment top to bottom right on
what is that north star what is that
one thing that's going to be most
important for the company because by
definition one means that there is a
singular priority that is most
important and that is what the entire
company and organization needs to rally
around to help the company achieve
what's your biggest revoops moment of the
past year
i often find that assumptions lead to
those revoops moments
you mentioned if you don't take the time
and energy to really focus on change and
getting everyone to align on the change
and understand the change if we can
result in a lot of frustration
that for me is what happens when you
have too many assumptions that you're
relying on assumptions are great
because it allows folks to run quickly
make decisions get to actions get to
results
however if your organization as a whole
especially when you're dealing with
large cross-functional initiatives if
everyone's not on the same page with the
same set of assumptions it can lead to a
lot of that frustration and frankly it
impedes your ability to move quickly on
that change
so when you think about the old thing
you got to slow down to then hurry up
later like that's exactly what i find
that we need to do to avoid those rev
oops moments where you really need to
slow down the beginning make sure
everyone has the same foundational
understanding of the problem statement
the metrics of success the ultimate like
north star make sure that you have
henna's from everyone on like do you have
clarity on this before then you
embarking on executing against that
project
and if you don't that's i think when you
end up again with a lot of frustrated
people in a lot of wasted time
that thing is i think a little bit
challenging for rev ops leaders at times
because they have the sort of the three
headed hydro sales marketing and customer
success
that are constantly asking them for this
or that
and so to even just get out of the
day-to-day operational piece and to
think more strategic can be challenging
a little bit
but then also
trying to say like hey this is a five-year
journey and obviously there's going to be
executive buy-in on that stuff
how do you bracket your time to make sure
that you are doing the day-to-day and
also
the like longer term planning and getting
everyone on the same page
i think this is why it's really again
important for me that my rev ops team
have the horizontal layer
because the only way to create more time
is if you automate and build
efficiencies
and you need that time in order to
really be strategic and be able to drive
company through its different pivots
so there is no easy answer i wish there
was more time in a day
but in order to create that time that's
where technology has been amazing
where technology has really even changed
the human behavior on so many different
fronts and made us more efficient
in some cases and that's what i look to
drive with my team is that horizontal
layer that we're looking at to really
bring the process improvement to bring
the
scalability that's going to give us the
time for the rest of the team to really
focus on thinking strategically
thinking through the pivots
obviously a sales force
later stage technology company when you're
there splunking same thing octa same thing
similar type of stages i'm curious like
how does that chain or that stage of a
company compared to how you would go
about approaching it if it was much
earlier or like a startup and how they
should think about rev ops
i actually think rev ops is super relevant
irregardless of the size of the company
because every company irregards your
startup or you've recently IPOed
or you're a massive behemoth like us
this goin and looking to continue the
growth and acceleration right on their
financials
you're going to be going through pivots
and that's what rev ops is there to help
facilitate it's help it's there to make
sure you have the right data
infrastructure operational business
processes
laid out in a really scalable fashion
to allow the companies to go through
those pivots
so if i have one word of advice for any
startup it's invest early in your rev
ops team because
that's going to build the foundations
that's going to allow you to
grow quickly
love it
any other piece of advice if you're rev ops
team of two or three or four or five
or something like that
and you're working in those early stages
of how do you help your leadership
think more strategically
when next week is important let alone
next quarter or next year
i think it is hard again i'm not going to
deny the day-to-day
activities and the demands on a rev ops
team can be infinite
but for me i've always guided everyone
to say
pause a minute understand what's being
asked and how does that fit into the
bigger picture
and then think ahead so if you're
working with a small startup and they've
got two salespeople
how are you going to how does your
process need to evolve so that tomorrow
it can support double
and then double from there
so at some point like if your team of
two now is 20
what's going to break
and if you kind of think ahead to what
is the company going to look like
in the next two or three or four years
and how is it going to grow and then
you apply that to what you're doing
today i think that is the mentality
is going to help establish
the right infrastructure for growth
despite everything that's being passed
you're always kind of working towards
something that's going to allow the
company to be
pivoting
let's get into the tool shed where we're
talking tools spreadsheets metrics
just like everyone's favorite tool qualified
you'll be to be tool shed is complete
without qualified
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them out we love qualified they're the
very best and they're the perfect tool
for any rev ops leader
Stephanie what is in your tool shed
what do you feel like are the essential
tools needed to drive change?
for change it's to me it's not a physical
tool or a software
for me it's really more of a skill set
in order to be successful i think in
helping companies pivot
you really need to have a learner my set
because every company is going to have
its own unique set of
circumstances goals history that you have
to work through or unravel
so having that learner mindset allows
you to really understand current state
so everyone might have clarity on the
future state but you really need to know
where you're coming from what you're
working with what resources you have
what challenges
is inherently already baked in based on
decisions that's been made maybe years
ago
right to really create a true plan that's
going to allow the company to pivot
and bridge the gap between where they
want to be when where they are today
are there certain metrics that like matter
to you in change like certain things
that you're tracking really closely
yep i think it goes back to change
takes time right so anything that is
going to take a few quarters a few years
you're going to want to make sure you
have those interim success metrics
whether that means that you've
effectively changed a particular
business process or a cadence
an operating cadence that your sales
what your partner team might be running
right or you've put in a new system in
place
whatever those interim success metrics
to really show that hey we're now
actually reestablishing the foundations
around our operational framework and
our infrastructure to facilitate the pivot
is super important to measure
i think the other thing again is adoption
right so if you're trying to sell a new
product right how many
you don't wait until you see the bookings
come from those new products you really
need to understand adoption
early on adoption right how many people
are are able to
talk about the product do the first call
deck on the product how many people
are now creating pipeline on that
product right all of these small
stepping stones that really show you
like are people going
advancing along that change journey
that we all know we have to go on
sticking to pipeline
is there anything that you've
noticed and it could be more recent
or in previous companies when you found
something in the pipeline that wasn't
working and then you fixed it
i think and this is not
particular to any company i think most
transformations go through a state
stage where they that clarity on the
priority and what's most important
that one thing that is most important
to the company
is not there and the alignment on that
one particular thing is not there
but the understanding of that that the
company lacks that alignment across all
the different function
is not necessarily well understood and i
think to me
transformation can't start until you have
that clarity in alignment
so before and often this is where
Revos can play a super strategic role
right and really trying to bring
together all the different pieces whether
that is the finance function the IT
function your product function to really
make sure that they see and understand
what the entire company is hearing from
those leaders do they actually hear
that there is alignment coming from
tops down on what is the most important
thing for the company to achieve in this
pivot and that isn't clear i think it's
RevOps a part of Revos responsibility to
really help bring those pieces together
and provide that clarity okay let's get
into our final segment quick hits
these are quick questions quick answers
quick hits step number one what is the
coolest animal
i think opossums are really cool which i
know is
probably not an answer you've heard before
on this but they i don't know if
everyone knows this but there's a
protein that we've been able to extract
from opossums that basically we've used
to create a bunch of antivenom that save
like thousands of lives at this point
dang that's pretty sweet i love pretty
much all forms of like biomimicry and
stuff like that that or whatever it's
called is a biomimic no that's only
different whatever the thing is where
basically animals have already figured out
how to do all sorts of crazy cool stuff
and then we just borrow it but i did not
know about possums creating antivenom
so shut up all the possums out there
all right what about your biggest
RevOps misconception i think one that is
near and dear to my heart is because
we're going through our fiscal year
planning and transition soon often
misconception from the field that RevOps
sets quotas and comp and commissions
all in a box maybe we're just like
spinning a wheel to set your numbers
but in reality it's done in collaboration
with all the leadership team it's done
in collaboration with our CFO and the
finance organization to really make sure
all our metrics line up right that from
the bookings through the quota to how
then we inset people to achieve those
quotas is all part of a bigger strategy
what about RevOps prediction for 2023
think of prediction for me is that the
the importance of RevOps i think is just
going to continue to like deepen and
increase for all companies because we're
so critical i think in helping
organizations kind of continually
evolve and reach their growth aspirations
and especially with the market changing
and i think we're pivot for many
companies with the market dynamics
i think RevOps is really going to be
super strategic and helping navigate
through the changes that's coming in
the next in some cases already hit us
becoming in in the next few months if you
could have one superpower what would it
be i would love the ability to stop time
so if you think of Harry Potter and her
main granger and she's got the little
machine that allows her to basically
create more time that would be amazing
if you like i always have so much to do
and never enough time to do it
time-turner time-turner i feel like though
if you start messing around with a time-turner
look out but it's your superpower so i
feel like you'd be okay
what advice would you have for someone who's
newly leading a RevOps team?
i would tell anyone newly leading that
treat all feedback as a gift and i mean
that both on giving feedback as well as
receiving feedback and i always think of
feedback if someone's willing to give me
feedback it's because they have information
for me on how i can be better at my job
and for me i would want anyone who has that
information to give it to me so i can
continually improve so if you have that
information as a new leader i know
sometimes giving that feedback can get
uncomfortable but if you're coming from a
place we're really telling someone how
you have information that's going to help
them improve and help them be better
like don't be shy about giving it
all right Stephanie that is it that's all
we got for today it's been wonderful
having you on the show for our listeners
you can go to octa.com to learn more
about all the cool stuff that they have
going on
any final thoughts anything to plug?
yep thank you so much i enjoyed all the
different aspects of rev ops and look
forward to breaking here indeed thanks again
you