Harnessing Your Technical Drive
On this episode, we talk to Adam about optimizing your go-to-market strategy, aligning on the meaning of opportunity, and harnessing your technical drive.
[MUSIC]
Welcome to Rise of RevOps.
I'm your host, CEO of Caspin Studios.
Today, I'm joined by a special guest, Adam.
How are you?
>> I'm very well Ian.
Thank you for having me.
>> Yeah, excited to have you on the show.
You're a multi-time CRO.
You've led revenue at a bunch of different organizations,
worked with a bunch of different RevOps leaders,
and who better to talk about RevOps than you?
>> Thank you.
>> All right, so let's get into it.
What was your first foray into revenue operations?
When did you first get introduced to it?
>> Yeah, great question.
I remember it clearly.
The company was Blackduck and the year was 2014,
and I was hired as part of a team that
ultimately turned around the company that was flatlining.
We had a very nice exit, sold company,
pleased everybody, all shareholders.
The CEO who hired me said that he had
also hired a vice president of revenue operations.
I thought for sure that person's going to report to me.
He's now going to report to me directly.
When I first heard that, I was conflicted,
but then I came to understand that revenue operations first
and foremost is the guardian of the single version of the truth
about the organization's go-to-market performance.
I thought by the end, it was a brilliant decision on the CEO's
part to set that up as a separate function that ultimately
grew to a very sizable one that would partner with sales
and marketing and post sales to do all the things
that revenue ops is supposed to do.
But that was my first true introduction and a very good one.
>> We always talk about in startup plans that you want to hire
for the company that you're going to be.
And I think that the folks who make investments in rev ops,
we've seen, we have brought them on the show,
we've talked to a lot of people,
it's such a different thing when you get
to different gates of the company as you grow
because there's so much less of that just non-transparency.
There's, hey, we have this.
Even if you don't have all the answers,
which of course we never have all the answers,
but even if you're just saying,
hey, we've been tracking this,
'cause the funny thing is about startup world,
who you're selling to, what you're selling,
the number of products you have, all this stuff,
at Series A and Series D,
are two completely different companies anyways, right?
>> That's right.
>> If you're not tracking the historical trends
and those historical trends might not be super relevant,
but you got to know where you've been.
And without rev ops, like you said,
what is your single source of truth?
Is it the CRO that's changed twice?
Is it the CMO who's changed twice?
Or is it this function that has kept a record of that?
And I think that your first intro to it is,
is I think probably not very common.
>> Yeah, it certainly was uncommon at the time
and again, the decision wasn't mine.
It was the CEOs of Black Duck and he's a brilliant guy.
But that VP of rev ops was a full time member
of the senior executive team
and was in every meeting,
senior executives participated in from start
to finish from entry to exit.
>> Flash forward to now,
what's your definition of rev ops?
>> So I think so much of what I carry with me
is a definition was formed from my experience at Black Duck.
I was very fortunate to work with great rev ops teams
at the subsequent companies as well.
But I think first and foremost,
I've always adhered to a definition
that starts with maintaining a single version
of the truth regarding performance,
whether it's historical performance,
current performance or forecasted performance
across the go-to-market team,
which is typically defined as marketing sales
and post sales, either services, customer success,
or account management.
So maintaining a single version of the truth
and implementing the correct measure of people,
processes, systems and tools to get there,
which in this day and age,
you know as well as anybody in it,
it's a very complex thing to do.
So I think first and foremost that
and ultimately rev ops is there to optimize all facets
of the go-to-market and my definition would be
that optimization comes through truly objective,
detailed analysis that drives really high quality
decision making about where the problems
and the opportunities are in the market and internally.
And that decision making for a great rev ops leader,
like the one I worked with at Black Duck,
is not only for the rev ops team,
but it's in partnership with sales and marketing
and post sales.
So I think as a benchmark definition,
that's what I would want as a CRO and a rev ops org.
- That's perfect.
And so as CRO of tomorrow.io,
tell me how you think about rev ops for your company.
- Yeah, I think similarly to that definition,
a very ambitious venture back to growth stage company
growing very quickly.
So our rev ops practice is rapidly evolving.
We have a small rev ops team here,
so we take one thing at a time,
but I think we've done a very good job here
of maintaining a single version of the truth
because it's very hard to move forward
with any of the things that I talked about,
optimizing processes to make the GTM go faster
or enabling really crisp,
incisive decision making across the GTM org
if you don't have that.
And so from that perspective, I'm quite blessed here
that tomorrow I would have a team of people
who are driving that.
- And then in terms of your overall revenue strategies,
obviously this year, charge revenue.
How does technology play into your decision making?
How do you think about your strategy and the tactics
that you all are using and how you use technology and data
and all of those things to support?
- Great questions.
I'll hold tomorrow.io in mind,
but I'll also think a little bit about my other experiences
in order to answer that question.
So the fundamental question when it comes to marketing
and sales and post sales is always,
how do we create more opportunity?
How do we convert that opportunity?
At the highest possible rate and the lowest possible cost
to keep our cack down?
And how do we absolutely delight our customers
so that we not only retain them but grow them?
And I would think that every self-respecting,
go to market executive or CRO wakes up in the morning
thinking about how they're going to improve those things.
In this day and age,
because most SaaS companies are fairly complex
in the information that you would need to pull together
in order to make intelligent decisions
to improve those things and reliance on technology,
at least for me, is integral.
It's implicit in every decision making,
every decision that we make.
So we look routinely at the health of the top of the funnel.
That is a tech-enabled decision that comes through HubSpot,
it comes through Salesforce,
it comes through Google Analytics,
we look routinely at conversion data
and that comes through Salesforce, it comes through Gong,
we look routinely at the strength and health of our forecast.
Are we doing what we projected we would do?
And that comes through Salesforce,
we recently started using Gong to assist us in that regard.
And I would say the majority,
if not all, of the decision making is resting upon data
that we're pulling from one of those systems
and a few more that we need.
I think to not be technically driven in the decisions
that you're going to make and therefore the strategy
you're going to execute,
particularly for a SaaS company,
just as a disservice to shareholders.
All the data is there, you just have to have the discipline
to look at it,
the discipline to gather it,
and the discipline to pull the right people together
to make a thoughtful decision.
>> Yeah, and I think there's so much of that
is about asking the right questions.
And I think for a long time,
we were asking maybe there are the right questions,
but fundamentally we weren't aligned on
why we were asking them or what we were asking them for.
And having that base level,
like RevOps, one of the things that it allows you to do
is to ask questions of the data
to understand why the things are happening.
Okay, we know things are happening now.
Like back in the day, we didn't know things were happening.
Like we knew that things were happening,
but we didn't really know.
You didn't really know what was happening in RevOps calls.
You didn't really know what SDRs were saying
and in their emails.
You didn't really know how many people
are converting on the website and like heat mapping
and all these other things.
You didn't really know that stuff.
And now you can ask the question, why?
Like, why is this happening?
What's the secondary effect of this?
What's the third order effect of this?
If this, then that,
and that's the part where I would imagine being a CRO
has changed so much is that you have all the stuff
at your fingertips.
Like you get to ask all these things
and point to different things.
Whereas back in the day,
it was a little bit more straightforward, right?
- That's a very good point.
When I first started my career,
just the possibility of understanding what an SDR,
to take one function with an entire go-to market,
to understand what, who an SDR was calling,
what they were saying when they got them on a phone,
what the outcome was of that call,
what follow-up looked like.
Let alone what was sent after the conversation,
or what might have been sent in advance
to create the conversation.
We're on a system that relied exclusively on trust.
There was no data.
- Yeah, right.
- Only what you told me you did.
And I imagine that some managers might pull up the sent items
or go into some obscure system and pull the call logs.
That was about as close as we could get.
But now, from having a conversation with our SDR team,
I think this really started to change five or six years ago.
Of course, we still trust.
Of course, we still trust.
But I can also say, hey, show me.
Let's look at the prospecting emails.
Let's look at the performance of those emails.
How many did you send?
How many were open?
How many were read?
How many were click-through?
Okay, how many calls did you make at what time of day
to which people?
And let's listen to what you said in that call.
It's all available at the click of a button.
And so the coaching opportunities that arise
as a consequence of having all of that data
at the fingertips to complement trust
between a manager and an SDR in this example.
It drives progress forward dramatically.
And the earlier point, it enables strategy
'cause we can very quickly see over the course
of a thousand emails or a thousand phone calls,
what worked and what didn't work.
We don't need to guess.
We just need to be disciplined enough
and set our gut and set our instinct aside
to look at the data and make it informed decision.
That's very exciting.
Let's get to our first segment, Rev Obstacles,
where we talk about the tough parts of Rev Obstacle.
What's one of the hardest Rev Obst problems
that you've faced in the world?
I think the single most challenging,
the single biggest challenge rather,
the biggest obstacle that I've faced in my career.
I haven't faced it here,
but I faced it at other companies that I've worked on
because as I've worked at, 'cause often as a CRO,
you're brought in, not, and I'm sure you and you know this,
not because people are like thrilled
with the way things are going.
Sure thing, yeah.
Right, rule number one, you're expected to make change
and manage that change and keep everybody motivated
through that period of change,
assuming that the changes you're gonna make independently
or with the rest of the executive team
advance the business's interests.
Everything we do is in the interest of the business.
Not everybody, when you come into a company,
has the same ideas.
Not everybody in marketing, for example,
or post sales has the same ideas about,
and this gets the answer to the question
that you asked about challenges
about what an opportunity is.
But think about it, the opportunity is at the crux
of the way that we evaluate the effectiveness of pipeline,
the effectiveness at the early stages of a sale,
how much opportunity are we gonna create
and how good are we at converting leads
and the opportunities.
Agreement on what an opportunity actually is,
it can be depending on the organization, hard fought,
and so I've joined organizations in the past
where opportunity equaled meeting.
- Yep.
- I don't, maybe there are some businesses
where you're lucky that you convert a very high rate
of meeting to close one pipeline,
but in most organizations I've worked for B2B companies
that are selling the enterprises or selling,
even to the SNB, opportunity doesn't equaled meeting,
but you'd be surprised at how many companies have built
their entire pipeline based upon that notion.
So now we've gotta introduce, for example,
rigorous systems of sales qualification
to define what an opportunity is, but guess what?
The number of opportunities the marketing team creates
or the SDR team creates is going to come down
as a function of the introduction of that rigor
and helping everybody understand why that's good
for the business and then aligning everybody's incentives
that can be challenging.
And I think that same drama plays itself out
in software companies around the world.
You often see the same challenge arise.
When you talk about leads, a new CRO, new CMO,
get together aligning on a single version of the truth,
hey, what's the lead here?
Is it somebody fill out a form on our website?
Is it a name that we pumped into our database?
Is it somebody that actually raised their hand
and said, "Contact me?"
We have to talk about it.
And so suddenly, if you align to a more stringent definition
of what a lead is, you might be creating quite a bit
of conflict for marketing teams that up until that point
have been measured, have been bonus,
have been padded on the back for driving a standard unit
that has a lower definition or a lesser rather definition.
Most of the challenges that I've had as a CRO
have come in and around those sort of definitions
and it's the steady unwinding of those definitions
to something that really means something
that the business, which is typically a qualified lead
and a qualified opportunity.
I can take a little bit of work.
- Yeah.
- Now that was a really long answer.
I hope I answered your question.
- We could probably keep talking for the next three weeks
just on this topic and we still probably wouldn't do it
just this, so I totally agree.
I used to have a boss who would take a photo of someone
with an ad somewhere in the wild and then send it
to the team and then it would be like a lead.
Hey, here's a lead.
Like, just because someone is buying an ad somewhere on earth
and does not mean that they're spending money with somebody
and I would be like, the only rat.
I'd be like, yeah, I guess, but why are they buying that?
Who is the target for that?
Is that in and around our solution, et cetera, et cetera,
et cetera, that's another thing.
If is it someone who is driving, showing intent to do X, Y, or Z?
Is it someone who's using a competitor?
Is that a lead?
Hey, is that good enough to say we better be knocking
down the door of this, of what that means?
And I wanna ask you, so in those organizations,
what was as an example, just for one of those organizations
that they used to be a part of?
What would be an example of, okay, this is what we figured out.
We decided that this is the way to do it
and you thought that that was a pretty good way to do it.
Yeah, it ties back to the beginnings of this conversation.
Many, if not most of the organizations,
not including the one I work for today.
The one I work for today, we have this remarkable collaboration
between sales, marketing, and post sales.
And we have a ton of transparency
and we're all just in it to win it.
So the decisions are pretty easy and they're collaborative.
And we've got a great little RevOps team,
but historically, what did it, and again,
this is the root of the conversation that we're having,
was giving the reporting to an independent,
objective RevOps team.
And I've also been fortunate to work for companies
where RevOps did not report to sales
and it did not report to marketing,
which I think is interesting.
So it's reported directly to the CEO or it's reported to the CFO.
And some people might recoil when I say that's a good thing
and say, well, hold on a second, I want to control that.
But it's better to have it as an independent function.
So where that has been a problem for me,
like we couldn't agree on opportunities, couldn't agree on leads,
couldn't agree on what measures we were going to look at
every moment of the day to drive the business forward.
Let's give it to the RevOps team.
They have all the data.
They can make a recommendation about what units
actually convert into meaningful business value.
And that's what we did.
Just gave it to an objective party
and they helped us figure it out.
- And I'm curious in your role as a CRO
and not speaking from this company particularly,
but as the Royal CRO, CRO in the sky that looks at all of us,
breaking those three functions into having a functional leader
for sales for marketing.
And sometimes marketing rolls up to CROs
sometimes they don't get that,
but having sales lead, marketing lead and post sales lead
and being responsible for all of revenue,
therefore puts those things a little different.
I think apparently the problem was if the CRO
is actually the head of sales
and they're the one who owns the RevOps team
and they're gonna serve that purpose
then you have marketing and customer success
or whatever it is, a little frozen out there.
And I think that there's some issues there.
If this person is responsible for my career,
then like at the end of the day,
they're the tie goes to them right every time.
- So just speaking from my own experience,
I've personally never owned all three.
Although I've met CROs and I read about CROs
who have owned all three sales marketing and post sales.
So I've had sales and I've had post sales,
but in recent history,
I'd have to go way back to my career very early,
before the era of RevOps where I had marketing too.
There's still a case to be made.
There's still a case to be made to have RevOps
being an independent function that rolls up to the CEO
or even to the CFO.
I'll give you an example of that.
I think one of the highest orders of revenue operations
and it's really hard to get there
is when the RevOps leader or the designated party
inside of RevOps,
and I've had this at a few companies that I've worked for,
when they carry the forecast for the business,
that's not just running a report in Salesforce
because generally there are other factors
that go into what comes out of your CRM
that allow you to form a forecast.
There's some judgment, for example,
that has to be imposed on it.
Or there might be a tool that you're using like Clary
or Insight Square that will help you put together
an accurate forecast on the first day of the quarter,
but you're gonna hit 90 days later when the quarter ends.
And certainly it's easier to forecast the quarter ages.
But I think having an independent party provide a forecast
does some remarkable things for a go-to-market organization.
Like for instance, it gets me out of the business
of having to forecast.
>> I was just gonna say that sounds great.
>> But we, so we can just rely on the data
that comes out of the systems we put in place
to produce an actual, inaccurate forecast.
And then it's incumbent upon me, right?
These are the things that I would wanna be doing.
This is where I could add the most value as a CRO.
It's incumbent upon me to make sure
that our sales reps are working within
a really clear sales process,
the really defined stages, entry and exit criteria.
>> Yeah.
>> It's incumbent upon me to make sure
that the sales managers are just proficient
in our sales process and they're coaching to those stages
and they're helping reps get over obstacles
so they can predictably push opportunity
or move rather opportunity through the process.
That is, that's time we'll spend as far as I'm concerned.
And then doing the other things
like personally or through my management team
listening to sales calls, looking at data
and providing the coaching to make sure
that the buyer seller conversation is happening.
Now, I promise you, you do all that well
and you instrument your systems to produce a forecast,
somebody else who is totally objective
and emotionally detached from the outcome,
which is a CRO is like virtually impossible.
Can do that.
It also requires that person.
I learned this all the way back at Blackduck.
We had the wonderful head of RevOps.
His name was Ed Loftus.
He was incredible.
He was a former finance guy.
He also knew how to relate to salespeople.
So he would sit in the deal reviews.
He would talk to sales reps.
He would get to know what they were working on.
So he was ultra high context.
So he could pull a report.
And that's a great RevOps leaders
who could do the same thing
because they work at generating context.
They could pull a forecast out of the system,
run the analytics and they can look at it
and they can say, well, hey,
I'm gonna put some judgment on this
because I know where we are and the opportunity.
And then when it comes time to present the forecast
to the executive team or present the forecast
to the board early on in a quarter,
I and the head of RevOps do that together.
He provides the numbers.
I provide the context.
Everybody's good.
That is the highest order, I think,
of operations for RevOps leader.
- Yeah, I think it's really interesting too
that someone with a little bit of a finance background.
And I think that to add to that,
someone who's just a deep, either lover
or understanding of technology
and how technology levers the business,
technology is a massive lever for sales and marketing.
At this point in time, every single marketing sales leader
and customer success leader, they have to be technologists.
Like you have to because you're using technology
all day every day.
And so if you are a little weak
and you're in one of those functions,
having a RevOps person who is really good at technology
and maybe your CTO is or your CIO is as well,
which is great, but they also have other fish to fry as well.
- Yeah, completely.
And just to, I think that's very well said,
I think to add to the conversation, if I can,
there's a lot of talk in recent years about deal desk.
I'm sure you've heard that here,
having a central point,
typically within RevOps,
where pricing is owned, the quoting process is owned,
approvals are owned, determinations around booking
and revenue recognition are made.
And even in some of the more sophisticated deal desks
that you know, I've helped build or had been a part of,
they can negotiate legal terms.
So having that provided to a sales or organizations
as a service through RevOps,
I'd say that's pretty close also,
one of the highest order states of a RevOps team,
but it does require the members of the RevOps team
who are going to lead that function too.
And I'll just, I'll probably overuse a word
I just used like three minutes ago
to be super high context.
'Cause you can't really make decisions
or partner with a sales rep
from the perspective of RevOps or deal desk.
If you don't understand the business,
you don't understand the territory, the rep,
where you are in the quarter,
what you're trying to accomplish, what levers you can pull.
And so some of the best RevOps leaders
that I've worked with have gotten out from behind the desk
and they've put themselves in a position
where they can learn about what it means
to be a quarter carrying sales rep.
And they're better for it.
- And it's so difficult to understand
the internal intricacies and the external market forces.
That is really hard to do.
That's why marketing is really hard
is because marketers need to understand the market.
Sales need to understand those individual accounts
to the teeth, right?
Like you need to know everything about how they buy,
why they buy, the levers that they buy
with all that sort of stuff.
But then you also need to look at your organization
and figure out how to optimize, like you said,
all those other things that are, those are organizational.
That's not the market is telling you,
market doesn't care how you organize your sales team.
And I think a lot of the RevOps people
that we talk to, we talk about the three heads
of the Hydro of the Sales Marketing Customer Success
that they have to give their time to all three of those
and triage that stuff.
That's the hard part for them is to say,
okay, well, this running or a port on whatever,
your TAM plus accounts that are of a certain size
that we wanna, that have a higher propensity to buy.
And we have this theory that these type of accounts,
that accounts that raise Series C
are the fastest buyers in our entire thing.
We wanna test a marketing theory on this,
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera,
is a very different mental function
than saying, hey, carve this territory up.
That's totally different.
- That's right.
Yeah, yeah.
And I think great RevOps teams participate
in those decisions for non-territory and quota.
Of course, have a compensation plans
are going to work.
And you're right, that's,
I'll take that one with me, the market doesn't care.
But how you organize your sales team,
I like that I'm gonna steal that.
- Yeah.
All right, let's get to our next segment, the tool shed.
We're talking tool spreadsheets, metrics,
just like everyone's favorite tool, qualified.
No B2B tool shed is complete without qualified.
Go to qualified.com right now and check them out.
Qualified, they're our best friends in the whole world.
And we love them dearly.
Go to qualified.com.
You can talk to a sales rep right now, right?
You could pause the podcast or keep listening
and you could talk to a sales person right now
on qualified and fix your pipeline.
Go to qualified.com.
All right, tool shed.
You actually touched on a number of the tools
in your tool shed, like Salesforce
and that spot and you mentioned Gongabunch.
Beyond that, what are the metrics that matter to you
and how do your tools and some additional things that,
tools that you spend your time in, how do they help you?
- Yeah, sure.
I'll start with the metrics.
We hear and I roll over the course of my career,
pretty, pretty passionate about routinely looking
at just a handful of metrics.
So number one is how much pipeline are we creating
on a daily and weekly basis?
And to be fair, a lot of people probably do that
and they're like, Adam, like that's not really
particularly insightful.
I would say not everybody puts that into the form
of a trend.
Are we getting better or are we getting worse?
And then takes the time to look at the breakdown
of the contribution to pipeline growth.
By vertical, by territory, by sales rep.
These things tend to be looked at in an aggregate.
And so that's a wonderful place to partner
with marketing colleagues, for example.
Just day over day, week over week.
Are we creating more pipeline?
Are we creating less pipeline?
And for whom are we creating it?
And what are the sources by which we're creating it?
Inbound, are we up or down that week?
For down, why?
Outbound, are we up or down that week?
For down, why?
Sales reps, because I typically work for organizations
where sales reps are expected.
I expect them to prospect as a source
of pipeline generation of the up or down.
And there's all sorts of precursors
to pipeline generation that we look at in our regular reports,
like the number of discovery calls,
the number of leads, and so forth.
But that's a big one.
It all starts with pipeline.
And the second is, what's our conversion
of that pipeline at stage?
So if we create a qualified lead,
and we've done that through the discovery call,
and maybe a demo, then how frequently
do we convert that to the next stage and the stage
after that and the stage after that?
And I don't think I'm unlike any other CRO for sales leader,
like the things that you're looking for
when you're converting opportunities,
at least if you're selling a B2B sale,
where you have sales reps who are out talking to customers,
a PLG aside, velocity aside, SMB sales aside.
Are we creating sponsors who want to champion
a solution to the problem?
Are we aligning with, we call it power,
but economic buyers, decision makers,
which is hard, very few sales organizations are good
at doing that.
If we're being asked to do a proof of concept, for example,
are we properly aligned around the solution,
around the investment, around the decision process,
and the multiple personas in the account?
And so I bring that up, not to lengthen the answer,
but because if those are delineated in the sales process,
and I'm pretty passionate about that,
just consistently looking at how well the company,
verticals, territories, individual sellers,
are converting those opportunities.
And not necessarily week over week or month over month,
but quarter over quarter, you want to be improving.
You want the skill required to go from discovery call
to qualified opportunity to go from a conversation
with a sponsor to a conversation with an economic buyer.
You want those skills to be developing,
and you want the conversion rates to be improving.
So I would say, in addition to pipeline generation,
it's conversion of opportunity at stage.
That would be the second one.
And the third one, it's not unique, is our forecast, of course,
and the opportunities that are going to get us
to where we need to be over the course of the quarter,
for a year.
- Any other thoughts on tools or metrics,
or blind spots or anything like that,
do you want to share with the audience?
- We're making terrific use of conversational intelligence
tools here and elsewhere over the last four or five years.
I think they're very powerful.
I think they're somewhat underutilized.
Gong, for example, or chorus.
Not just for pulling out call analytics.
I think those are useful, but actually listening
and coaching to tape, and then increasingly tying
what is said or what is not said in a call to a forecast.
Not as the mechanism for forecasting,
but these platforms are doing remarkable things now
with conversational analytics to tell you whether or not,
for example, the opportunity that you forecasted for close
by the end of the quarter, which is just in a few short weeks,
has supported a conversation around price
or decision-making process.
Like, guess what?
I could know that.
I could pull an opportunity right now
that we're forecasting for the quarter, and we've been gone.
I can quickly determine whether or not
price has been agreed to.
The decision-making process is well understood
if we've sent a contract to them.
So I find those tools to be remarkably powerful.
On the extreme front end, we've started to use tools
like Zoom and info.
We're in a pilot right now with another tool
that's helping us with intent data.
So starting to shift our SDR, prospecting efforts
away from cold lists and toward high intent sources.
So we get inbound leads.
We've started to use tools to route those to closers directly,
which I think most companies are doing.
And that leaves our SDRs opportunities to prospect outbound.
Using signal from the marketplace around intent
that some of these tools are able to gather
and then focusing on prospecting efforts there,
where there's a signal that they might be interested
in solving a problem that we can.
I think over the last couple of companies,
those tools have been hugely impactful for me.
Adam, it's been awesome having you on the show.
We're going to be following along and checking out tomorrow.io.
So many cool things going on there.
I know you can't share everything.
It's crazy times in this world.
I'm super excited to follow along.
Any final thoughts or any pieces of advice for RevOps,
the leaders that are out there listening?
Just one thought and at the risk of sounding
a little bit redundant and thank you for asking, by the way.
I think that go to market leaders, CROCMOs
are best served to bring RevOps as close into the fold
of how the software is marketed and how the software is sold.
Because with that context, RevOps teams can become great
in the quality of the decision making, only improves.
They've got all the data and if they're armed properly
with the context around how the business actually works
and how it operates, you're creating very powerful partners
in the business to do all those things that we talked about,
which is generally driving more business
and improving the quality of decision making.
So I will leave on that one point around context.
Awesome.
Thanks again, man.
I'm gonna talk soon.
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