Building Brand Awareness in Shifting Markets
Kevin Tate, CMO at Clearbit offers valuable insights on the shifting economics of demand generation driven by changes in the market.
[MUSIC]
Welcome to Demand Gen Visionaries presented by Qualified.
Go to Qualified.com to learn more.
I'm Ian Faison, CEO of Caspian Studios.
And today I am joined by recurring guest, Kevin, how are you?
>> I'm good.
It's good to be back.
Recurring guest.
>> Thank you.
It feels good.
>> You're not super new interior at Clearbit, but it was at the more of the
beginning of your journey.
And here we are, checking in a year later.
I've been there maybe five months, and now it's been almost two years.
So yeah, different times.
Yeah.
>> So tell us what is going on with Clearbit, how have things changed in the
past year
for you and your?
>> Things have gotten busy.
It is a little bit different landscape today than it was in December 21.
And we're certainly working with a lot more companies who are a lot more
focused
on the quality of their funnel and of their go-to market motion.
I think one of the big things that we've seen is if you go back to in the way
back machine to 21, there was a sense of just, yeah, give me whatever I need to
grow as
quickly as possible, sort of a growth at all costs mindset because it felt like
all boats
were rising so quickly and B2B.
And what we see today is more of a, how do I grow efficiently?
My demand gym budget probably isn't going up and my focus on my ideal customers
needs
to get even stronger.
So the customers that we're talking to today, various states and various sizes,
but there's
a commonality in how do I be efficient?
How do I make sure that I have the best understanding of my go-to market and
put data to work
and the best way I can?
So that's a lot of what we're thinking about these days.
>> And for our listeners that don't know, can you just give a quick refresh on
Clearbit
and who your customers are and who you serve?
>> Yeah.
So I'm Kevin Tate, CMO at Clearbit.
And Clearbit brings data, we have 50 million company profiles and hundreds of
millions
of contact profiles that are all about pretty much every company with a website
And companies use that and all of our APIs and our platform to put that data to
work
all across their go-to market.
So they'll use it to do everything from target their ads more precisely to know
who's coming
to their website because we can resolve the IP address, which is a big one.
And once you know what company someone is from on your website, you can do all
kinds
of cool stuff.
You can personalize the website, you can pop the chat window because you know
they're
a great prospect.
And then you can do things like follow up with them afterwards because you know
who the key
buyers are based on the data you have access to.
So companies use Clearbit to make their whole go-to markets smarter.
>> And obviously you mentioned this, but we have this new normal.
So many new normal these days.
>> But the new normal of everybody getting their pipeline scrutinized more than
ever.
What are you seeing from your customers and how they are able to navigate those
conversations?
>> It's a good question.
It's fun.
Clearbit's a fun vantage point because you can put this data to work in so many
different
places that working with our customers.
We get a litmus test or a reflection of where they focused.
And where they're focused today is largely around optimizing their inbound or
said differently.
How do I get more better leads from my website?
Which is interesting.
It's certainly related to demand gen and how do I spend effectively.
I think a lot of what we're seeing is, yeah, I'm going to get them to the site
and that's
going to cost me a lot of money.
How do I make sure that I give them the very best site experience, that I know
who they
are and that I'm optimizing my sales efforts around the highest priority ones.
So a lot of that rhymes with optimizing that inbound motion and that's become a
real big
focus area in this new economy.
>> What about the outbound motion as well?
Because this is something that with budgets constricting and people are a
little bit more
concerned with how they're spending money.
I don't know if you've noticed this, but I've noticed that like Blint and for
example
is cheaper now for us, for sure, than the LinkedIn ads that Caspian is running.
So I think that there's been a pullback on that stuff.
I've absolutely noted that it's completely anecdotal and I'm sure it's not
everyone who
has the data companies probably like that.
Definitely not true for us.
But yeah, I don't know what, but what are you seeing in terms of outbound and
creating
demand rather than the capturing size?
>> Yeah.
So a few pieces there and some of the ones that we end up working with
customers almost.
So first is the using social including LinkedIn to target really precisely with
B2B attributes,
right?
So making sure you're going after the companies and the industries and the sub-
sectors and
the titles and the departments.
All that is a lot of what Clibbit gets used for on the demand gen side.
We're also seeing the economics change there.
I think some of that is the platforms growing up and getting better with data
like ours to
target more specifically.
I do think also the reality is given the market shift, there's more tire
kicking than there
used to be.
It's a little bit of an over characterization, but when things were really fro
thy, you could
be more sure that someone who came across your content ad on Facebook or
Instagram or
somewhere, yeah, they might just be in the market.
And now I think it's less likely that they're ready to buy now, but it's just
as important
for you as a brand to be building awareness so that you're top of mind when the
time is
right.
It just kind of changes that equation a little bit.
I know for Clibbit, for example, we've changed the way we look at our social
advertising,
expecting less direct leads and more awareness and engagement that then lead
people to our
site that then will turn into leads when the time is right.
So I think it's changed a bit the way people expect things from their demand
spend.
But then the other side of that, when you think about outbound, there's that
spend and
demand creation, there's also the sales outbounding.
And we have a BDR team or an SDR team that is trying to start net new
conversations.
And that's an area where we see companies kind of almost bifurcating.
So we see some teams really saying, all right, get on the phones.
We just we got a we got a cold call.
And I know everybody hates cold calling, but we got to do it.
And it's not wrong, but I know my phone is just blown up and it feels like
everybody
has my mobile number.
And so it's awful.
And so that's not it.
You want to track it here?
That's not our approach.
We're not so much focused on that and enabling that motion where we've been
working on we
want something last year called capture that does this when a company is
showing interest
because you can tell from who came to your website.
How do you make sure you can connect with the key buyers that that company,
whether
that's through campaigns or through emails, like how do you start building that
air cover
awareness at the right time?
And that's the sales outbound motion that we've been more working with
companies to
enable.
And again, this capability around capture to get the key contacts for the
companies that
are showing intent and appear to be in market, that's been a pretty powerful
tool.
So I think it adds up to sort of smarter outbound.
I like that smarter outbound.
Thank everybody thinks that second half budgets are going to be a little
different than they
are now.
And gosh, isn't that just like I was having this conversation with our CFO and
I was thinking
about how hard projecting is right now and thinking about the second half of
the year
and all these conversations that people are kicking the can people do that
anyways, the
normal sales cycle, right?
But thinking of it strategically of like how many people are doing that and a
lot of that
will end up being kicked a can till Q4 or Q1 next year.
Ultimately, a lot of the advice is do more or less sit back a little bit.
Don't waste your money getting in conversations that aren't going to convert.
And I almost feel the opposite as I almost feel like getting in those
conversations now
and really helping your sales team to build thoughtful, relevant sort of
experiences for
those people to know that like we're not the pain in the ass to work with.
We're not going to be beating down your door every two seconds to close the
deal.
We're actually going to like understand what you're saying and we're actually
building
content and community resources and things that are anticipating you're wanting
to get
budget back and do these initiatives that you want to do later in the year.
I don't know.
That's just kind of how I personally feel about it.
And it's how I feel as a buyer.
Maybe that's why is because that's how I feel as a buyer.
Where it's like, I kind of want to know when I'm going to get to make those
decisions and
the CFO isn't telling me.
So if you can help me as seller to like crisis plan a little bit for me, that
would be nice.
Yeah.
I don't know.
What do you think?
I think you're right.
And it's a great point because people take very different approaches under that
stress.
Right?
So what I picture when you talk about it, let's say you've got 50 people, 50
companies in
your pipeline.
And now you know that they're going to be kicking the can down on budget.
One approach is just focus on the five that you know have budget and can buy.
Okay.
Yep.
That's not wrong.
But then there's also, all right, let's make that 50, 100 because I don't know
quite
when.
But I want to be in as many conversations as I can when the time is right.
And you got to do both.
And I think that some of the sales versus marketing tension right now is how
you focus
on closing the highest priority, but you're also building pipe for the future.
One of the things that we've done as a part of that strategy to your point is
we focused
more on our free tools.
So we offer something called the weekly visitor report that lets you see who's
coming to your
website for free.
And it doesn't show you all the companies because it's the free version, but
you can
unlock more and then we've got things like our TAM calculator and our connect
extension
for Chrome.
We've been really relying on those to let companies who maybe are kicking the
can down
the road in terms of budget, but start using Clearbit and start seeing the
value and start
trying it out.
And we trust that when the time is right, we'll be top of mind.
So that's been part of our kind of not so secret plan to expand that set of
conversations,
even though we know that it might be a while before they're ready to buy.
I absolutely love that advice because it speaks to the person who really wants
to solve this
problem right now, but doesn't have the budget for it.
So it's like just give them a taste of solving it now, at least so that they
could start solving
it now.
And like most software products pricing is endlessly complex thing.
And I don't pretend to know a lot about it because it is so complex.
If there is something that you can do to work on right now to get people into
the product
now is a six month free trial.
Hey, you really think that this is going to close in six months.
Okay.
Here's your six month free trial.
Let's see how much we can onboard you and get you using the product or whatever
because
we know you're going to be back.
Maybe you don't do that for anyone, but maybe there's like a super high LTV
profile of your
persona that if you're like, Hey, everyone in FinTech, we're going to give a
six month
free trial for whatever, however you think about that stuff and then launch a
campaign
like that.
And maybe that's totally wrong.
Maybe nobody would care and maybe that loses you a bunch of business down the
road because
they don't have enough skin in the game or something like that.
I think it's an interesting thing to focus on those free tools and getting
people into
the product when they don't have the money to really experience the whole thing
I think you're right.
I think you're right.
And I think we may look back at this time and realize, Oh, there was a whole
land grab
going on with free tools and free trials.
And if you weren't participating, then you're starting from the back foot.
So that's certainly what we've been leaning into as a marketer.
It also means a lot more companies that you're working with and talking to and
learning from
and are getting value from these tools.
It just expands the conversation versus that sort of former approach, which is
just like,
all right, let's get really narrow minded or tunnel vision around just the
people of
budget.
It's a hard way to live.
So yeah, we've been expanding.
Let's get into our next segment, the playbook where you open up the playbook
and talk about
the tactics that help you win.
You play to win the game.
Hello, you play to win the game.
You don't play to just play it.
Obviously, the first time around, you told us you're on cutable budget items,
but I'm
curious how those things have changed.
What are your three uncutable budget items now as we currently sit as the
entire world
changes every six months?
Yeah.
What are your three uncutables?
The first would be mid funnel content.
This is a little different from I would have said 15 months ago in this world
of people
who may have interest but not budget and trying to make sure we can nurture
people along through
what may be a longer cycle.
We've really leaned into what we define as mid funnel content.
We actually organized our team into talk with funnel, mid funnel, bottom of
funnel, and
each has its own objectives and content and things.
I realize it's not the first ones to do that.
The mid funnel focus for us are things like guides.
How to guides for trying to better score and route your leads using Clearbit
and Lead Feeder?
Here's exactly how to do that step by step.
We've been published 12 of those guides in just the last few weeks.
That's been a big focus for us around this mid funnel content that helps
someone solve
very specific problems using Clearbit.
That also gives us that signal, "Okay, someone's moving from looking around and
learning to
their reading guides about very specific implementation and how to approach
things.
That tells us that they're getting further down the path."
That's uncutable number one.
I think uncutable number two has been our use of our own reveal capability.
That's the ability that lets you turn an IP address into knowing what company
someone
is from so you can treat them like you know them because you do.
We actually weren't taking as much advantage of that in the past as we have
been in the
last year.
We use one of our partners, Mutiny, on our site to do personalization based on
that IP
address.
We use partners like Chili Piper to make sure that we're scheduling meetings
right away
with the ones that are best fit.
We have a lot of scoring that now goes in the prioritization for the sales
people based
on what we could reveal about that company and how well they fit our ICP.
Applying a lot of the sort of Clearbit capabilities to Clearbit has been a
focus of ours over
the last year or so.
I would say that we've seen really strong results from being able to know who
our ICPs
are and then treat them like VIPs.
That has become an indispensable budget item for us.
Then I have a new one.
We'll see.
On here in a year we can see whether or not this one comes true or not.
But we're trying to start something new.
Again, focused on the mid funnel, which is a weekly demo, a Clearbit Live
weekly demo.
We just say, "Look, we're going to be here every week.
One of our SEs is going to show the platform and what you can do with it for 20
minutes.
If you want to come, do and ask questions."
Really low pressure, really low hurdle.
I have this theory that any buyers, but especially smart experience technical
marketing buyers,
like, "Hey, let's schedule some time for you to get on the phone with a sales
person."
That's kind of a high hurdle.
That's asking a lot of my time.
I would like to put a lower hurdle in the middle of our funnel that's just like
, "We're
here every Wednesday.
Feel free to join."
We're hoping to kick that off here in a couple of weeks.
I think it could be a really interesting waypost in our mid funnel.
Let's just see who comes.
I don't know.
I don't know if five are going to come or 50 are going to come, but it's good
either
way.
It gives us a way to just, again, just engage in this real live way with our
mid funnel
customers in a way that's low pressure.
I love it.
I've heard that has worked really well for other companies.
Somebody did a post on that.
Maybe Jason Lemkin did a post or he was like, "Every single company should do
this.
It's such a no-brainer."
I forget.
I think it's him.
Yeah, I agree.
I totally agree.
Why not?
Yeah.
That's the thing.
If one person shows up, that's what a regular demo is.
Yeah.
It's interesting.
It's working on this side benefit, which is that our AEs and our solution
engineers
always need more practice and demos.
Having them rotate through could be a really nice way to also give them more
practice and
hone those skills.
I think only goodness can come of it.
But again, if we're back here in a year, you can contest me.
It's fascinating.
I'm going to be really interested to see the results.
So I'm excited to follow along.
Are you also going to publish a recorded demo that people can just consume on
their
own?
We've asked ourselves that question.
My guess is yes, because why not?
But my only hesitancy is that I wouldn't want it to supplant to the other.
So we do want something that's low hurdle.
There's still a little bit of a like, "Yeah, I'm going to go to the Wednesday
Clearbit
Live versus I'm just going to speed through the recorded ones."
So I don't know.
Probably is the answer.
But maybe we'll take it and cut it up into three or four short subjects that
really become
more like a quick take on certain parts of the solution and use it that way.
I was reading a great sales post where they were talking about the four
questions at every
sales person would ask, "Gosh, I got to find this thing now."
But they were all very listener heavy, right?
They were intended for that really brilliant sales rep that wants to go listen
to how these
people describe their own problems in a creative way and pull those things out
and map that
back to how the product fits in there, which is what every single marketer
wants to hear
that their sales people are doing.
And I wonder how you can create a really easy next step to that demo experience
to get
there or if it's just a totally different type of buyer that needs that thing.
Because I always look at it as the type of buyer self-selects into the way that
they
want, but at some point in time, there's going to need to be some hand holding.
And if you let them self-select into the one, I've done this a million times.
Yeah, yeah, okay, I got it.
And then it's like, you get to the point and you're like, "Wait, no, actually I
do have
10 questions."
And it's like, these are all the things that you said you got.
So there is that natural thing there.
But I wonder how there's that sort of personalized touch.
I also always wonder if the next step is talking to a person with that role
rather than a sales
person.
Like if you put a A, B, like button A, talk to a sales person, button B, talk
to your
peer at our company who does your same job.
Right.
Like how many people would click the button B?
Oh my gosh, I know in ClearBits case, it would be a lot.
And it's not because we don't have great salespeople, we do.
But the so often we're talking to a demand marketer that is looking for demand-
gen strategies
and how to optimize their inbound say, and they want to talk to Colin who runs
demand
on my team.
And it's great.
And we get them together and they're like, "Dah, dah, dah, dah, dah," because
they're
living in the same world with the same challenges.
And it's one of the fun things about ClearBits because it gets very meta, right
We're using ClearBit, @ClearBit to sell ClearBit.
And so we have a lot to talk about when it comes to how do you actually use
this well.
So it keeps it fun.
I think it's also interesting to see how the, what you describe, that sort of
solution architecture.
Now, let's get on the whiteboard and figure out how is actually all this going
to fit
for you in your particular context that has changed in this virtual Zoom-based
world.
I'm dating myself here, but when I started my career and it was in the late '90
s, I was
literally filling up actual whiteboards with, "Here's how your website's going
to work
and everything."
And that, it's a little trickier to do over Zoom.
And this is how we all sell today.
We see people doing some pretty innovative things.
I'm hopeful that that sort of co-creation of the solution in a whiteboard-y
kind of
way is something that we get better and better at in these virtual environments
, because
I think it's such an important part of the consultative selling process.
Yeah, agreed.
And I think that ultimately if you're doing, if you have that strong consultant
level sales
approach that at the end of the day, yes, the sales engineer is part of that.
But there has to be someone who actually has this job because at the end of the
day, the
reason why consultants make a lot of money is because they tell you how to,
what's the
old phrase, ask you for the time and tell you to buy a better watch or
something or
whatever that is.
Yeah, they borrow your watch and then tell you the time.
Yeah, exactly.
That's right.
Right.
Right.
So true.
But the alternative to that is the person who is sitting in the seat with you.
And I wonder if the pathway is there.
If we eliminated the pathways, the roadblocks in order to talk to someone like
that faster,
because they got to find that person at your company, they got to schedule time
with them.
Yeah.
They use it to like calendar, chilli, whatever, whatever.
You know, it's like, yeah, you get into so many different things.
I wonder also if the demo that you record, if you made a recorded one available
, that
was an interactive one where it is like your person sitting in the seat, like
calling for
you where he's asking questions or they're asking him questions about his
product.
So it's not just a straight demo.
It gets a lot of those like the consultative questions asked.
They're like, oh, well, actually I have this problem in this forever.
I don't know if you could act that or if you could just have him do it honestly
But that's an interesting angle.
I'm going to take it in a weird direction, which is that it reminds me that
sort of how
do I accomplish this question?
And then how do you get back answers to that at scale?
The whole AI chat GPT thing right now.
I mean, I feel like so much of what I've seen all the demos this week, even
just from Hub
Slide and Salesforce and companies showing off these new interfaces, a lot of
it comes
down to how do I accomplish this task?
And I've been thinking about how do we bring that to what's going to be this
back to this
mid funnel, how to content, right?
How do I use Clearbit to score and route leads better using Lead Feeder?
That's the type of thing that we need to organize our content in a way that an
AI-assisted
interaction can say, "voop, here you go."
And so it's going to be really interesting to see how and how quickly that type
of interaction
changes the way we think about to your point producing and organizing content
so it can
be used that way.
This is actually a good segue into the second thing that you said, which was
talking about
personalization and using tools like Muni and things like that.
How that could y'all do in personalization?
How do you even think about this?
Because I think that this is something that people are either doing well, doing
not well,
or just I'm not even thinking about it yet.
So I will say first, personalization is it's a long word and it's way too
complicated.
And I think if we rebrand personalization, it would benefit it, again, sounding
like
an old person, but I remember selling personalization solutions in '97.
And they were not much easier than they are now.
So I think a better way to look at it, a way that we often look at is like
segmenting
and tailoring.
And a little can go a long way in terms of what you show to a customer based on
what
you know about them.
So a common example is when you're showing logos or case studies.
And if a company comes to your website and you can tell it's a small company,
oh, look,
there's the company and they've got 14 employees and they're series A funded
and that's a good
target for you, show them the logos and the case studies that are for small
companies.
And maybe even so far as small companies that are in their industry, if you
have those.
But that's going to be way in the data shows way more impactful than if you're
showing
a random assortment of logos and case studies or worse ones that are huge.
Oh, wow, these folks work with IBM and Google and they say, okay, yeah, they
don't work
with companies like me.
So even quote simple things like show the small companies, small company
examples and
show the big companies, big company examples end up going a long way.
And then we regularly see people do simple but sophisticated things on like
their pricing
page where they will show more relevant plans or they will show good fit
customers a different
call to action.
If you've got a company that you can tell because you reverse your DNI is IP,
wow, this
is like strike zone for my ICP.
Let's offer them a free trial.
I can't do it for everyone, but I certainly would do it for them.
So you give them a free trial CTA versus schedule a demo or whatever the other
CTA is.
Huge impact just had a customer come and talk to our group about something they
did recently
and they ran one of these changes on the homepage and it had a 972% increase in
their
click through.
I mean, almost 10x, right?
So these things, these little things can have a huge impact, but they've got to
be simple,
right?
Back to the sort of small company, show them small company stuff.
My soapbox or anti-personalization is a little information can go a long way,
but don't overcomplicate
it.
Pick two or three text areas, pick two or three calls to action and try to
align them based
on the things that matter most.
That's so interesting.
And I think that the corollary to that is make stuff on your website easy to
find by
the persona, by the company size, by all that stuff.
And if Jeff Bezos taught us anything, if you can save them those clicks, you're
not
in need, then you're going to do a lot.
It is interesting.
And this is where one wants to be careful because you don't want to appear
creepy.
Hey, how are things in Portland?
Like I don't need someone to like show off that they know where I'm coming from
But by the same token, I think as consumers, as B2C consumers, we sort of take
for granted
now that when I'm shopping at Best Buy or whatever, look Best Buy, I shop there
a lot.
You shouldn't be treating me like we've never met before, right?
I bought something last week.
I'm a Best Buy rewards member.
You know what my local store is.
I just take all that for granted when I'm interacting with Best Buy online.
So figuring out what the B2B version of that is so that you can treat somebody
like you
know them because you can, but you also don't want to be overbearing.
I think that's where that personalization line falls in.
And it's particularly important, I think not just so much in the initial online
interaction.
But when you've got a company that's interested or in market or showing you
those signals,
when people use Clearbit to pass that over to sales, it's got all this rich
information
about it, right?
It's not just an email address and maybe a title.
It's a whole bunch of information that now they can use as they follow up and
know how
to prioritize that.
I think that those things end up making a big difference in terms of priority.
So we didn't do most cuttable or stuff that you're maybe dialing back.
Are you dialing back?
We haven't really dialed back in terms of overall spend and budget.
We've been fortunate that way.
Our sector is pretty hot.
But trying to think about things we've defocused on.
We've defocused some on virtual events, honestly.
That's not a shocker.
The last couple of years, a lot of virtual events and virtual conferences.
And it felt like one of the only ways to get out there or get access to pulls
of buyers.
So we've shifted that to actual in-person events.
And none of time we'll be going to 10 or 15 in-person events this year and also
looking
to do some smaller events with our customers, like customer dinners and that
sort of thing.
So that's been a shift.
I think where we are and others, I think a little fatigue from all of some
purely virtual
events.
Yeah, that's probably the one that comes to mind most.
I do want to jump back to your first uncuttable of that mid-funnel content.
That's a great uncuttable budget item recommendation.
I'm curious, how do you get ROI from that stuff?
How do you show ROI from mid-funnel content?
It's a good question.
Attribution.
It's so easy.
We do though.
We tagged all these things up and tried to figure out what part, what content
was two
sides.
What content attached most to our ICP and the personas and a lot of that, a lot
of that,
especially our guides content in the mid-funnel, it's really jobs to be done
oriented.
So it's almost just like a catalog of jobs to be done.
We have hypotheses about these are the jobs to be done by these personas at
these types
of companies.
And thanks to Clearbit and Deontemodemization, we can actually see whether that
's true or
not.
Look at the guide for how to prioritize your leads based on fit and intent and
say, "Okay,
did it actually connect with?
Does it appear to be useful to the personas and the companies we thought?"
So that's kind of the front end.
And that's more a measure of, was our hypothesis right and as our marketing
dollar being well
spent to get them there.
On the back end, it's about, did they become opportunities and did those
opportunities
close?
I find the first of those a little more useful.
I think measuring whether or not in our language it became a sales accepted
opportunity, that
tells me if it's the right person, right company, right time, that's kind of
what I can control.
Whether or not they go on to buy, lots of things, the confactor in there.
But we look at, did they go on to become an SAO or sales accepted opportunity
as a key
measure?
So kind of looked at, it's interesting because as you ask that it's another
reason or the
challenge in doing that is another reason I'm excited about this weekly demo
idea.
Because I want to create a sort of like a waypost or a lily pad on that
customer journey where
I can see a bunch of them.
You know, like, yeah, they won't all come, but like a lot will eventually and
then you
can say, "All right, well, what was that like?"
So much of the final management is complicated by so many different personas
and so many
different jobs to be done and then so many different products and paths and
then so,
and like trying to create sort of a center of gravity around certain types of
content
or something like a weekly demo, I think it helps you to recognize the patterns
more.
That's so fun and such a great description.
Do you see those people engaging with those type of mid funnel assets before
they become
an opportunity or even still a lot of them after they become an opportunity?
We're seeing it, we're seeing it mostly before, but it is a good question.
I think some of the best mid funnel content reads almost more like
documentation.
I mean, if you kind of put it on two ends of the spectrum, one is the case
study that
is a thinly veiled ad for the product and that's certainly a thing, but it's
way over
here and then over here is like the API documentation, which is no bones about
it, just the facts.
And so something in the middle that's like, "Hey, here's actually how people
like you
are solving this problem and it's got busy o diagrams and it's got suggested
things and
it might even have code snippets."
I like that kind of mid funnel content, which to your point could happen before
they're
ready to raise their hand and talk to someone or it could come after because
they're using
it, it's educational enough, it's meaningful enough that it's actually a
resource.
So that's the balance we're trying to strike.
I love it.
Let's find this is a very clear bit pluggy sort of send off here, but I just
feel like
it's everything is so persona based, like the rise of account based marketing
and like
all this stuff, it just feels like all the momentum is going towards persona
based stuff
and us having the realization that these personas are so different and unique
and how they buy,
how the personas buy or how different people within one type of persona buy and
like it
just feels like going that direction and pushing super, I mean, that's what
personalization
is.
That's all this stuff is just going further and further.
If you know who they are and you can create hyper niche, hyper targeted like we
are creating
this case study for this one type of tiny use case for, but we know that these
three
companies are the only ones who have it and their lifetime value is a million
plus and
whatever, then it's worth creating.
That's the sort of stuff that like is endlessly fascinating to me.
Yeah.
And I think you're right.
And I don't think that's going to never say never, but that's an arrow that's
going
to go in that direction for quite some time.
So yeah, it'll be fun to watch.
Kevin awesome having you on the show.
Thanks again for listeners.
You can go check out Clearbit and you can check out Kevin on the socials and on
any final thoughts anything to plug?
No, thank you so much for having me.
I'm super exciting here from our tech and for Clearbit.
And if you haven't had a chance to check out Clearbit, I do invite you to try
out our weekly
visitor report.
That's a free tool that tells you the companies come into your website and a
little bit about
how they fit your ICP.
So check out the weekly visitor report.
Awesome.
Thanks again, Kevin.
Thank you.
That was super fun. (upbeat music)
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