The End of Marketing Stagnation: Simple Content and a Strong Brand Strategy
Jessica Shapiro, CMO at LiveRamp, is leading and empowering her team to push up against marketing stagnation.
[MUSIC]
Welcome to Pipeline Visionaries.
I'm Ian Faiz on CEO of Casping Studios.
Today, I am joined by special guest, Jessica.
How are you?
>> I am good and I am very honored to be here.
I love your podcast and I love the incredible talent you've had on this podcast
So I'm honored to be amongst the guests.
>> We appreciate it very much.
And so today we're going to be talking about obviously marketing, pipeline
development.
We're going to talk about live ramp, all the cool stuff that you're doing there
We're going to get into your background.
We're going to talk about how demand,
and growth work effectively with the broader marketing team.
And much more in today's episode, as always, is brought to you by our friends
at Qualified.
Qualified is the number one conversational sales and
marketing platform for companies, revenue teams that use Salesforce.
Head on over to Qualified.com to learn how you can start having a smarter,
faster conversation with your buyers right there on your websites.
So let's get started, Jessica.
What's your first job marketing?
>> My first job in marketing, actually, I'll just take you back.
I am from Seattle.
I went to the East Coast for college.
I moved to Washington, DC for a job.
I graduated with a liberal arts degree.
I had no idea what I wanted to do.
But I knew through my life that I was always curious about people.
I was always invested in relationships and communication and storytelling.
Was something that was important to me and
I was always developing that skill.
I moved to the East Coast.
I never thought I'd come back to Seattle.
It felt like a small town when I left.
But then there was a tech boom in Seattle and everyone was moving to Seattle.
So there I went.
I came back and I got a temp job in a small startup that I think six months
later went under.
But the CEO took a liking to me and he said, let me introduce you to our PR
firm.
I think you'd be a perfect fit for that.
I went over to that PR firm and that firm represented a lot of small high tech
companies who are in the process of going public.
And so that lit my fire for technology, for companies in growth,
for telling their stories and then also connecting that to the financial
markets.
So that was how I started marketing.
And flash forward to today, tell us what it means to be CMO, a librarian.
To be, I've been here for about a year and a half, it is a phenomenal job.
It's been about a lot of transformation.
When I came into Live RAM, though the company has been very successful,
marketing was not seen as a strategic function that was driving revenue.
We were doing a lot of things, but we weren't correlating that to the bottom
line.
We weren't correlating that to impact in the industry.
And my job was to come in and it was really about restructuring the team,
figuring out what we needed to do so that marketing had a seat at the table.
And that we were driving revenue.
So the first thing I did was take stock of the talent,
figure out who we needed to make sure was in more important seats.
It coincided with some layoffs, so there was some change in the talent.
But we really worked on building that demand-gen engine and getting our pipes
working,
getting that waterfall there so that we could really understand what was coming
in
at the top of the funnel and how was it moving all the way through to the hand
off
to sales and then to close one.
Once we got that infrastructure laid, the next big challenge was,
what do we stand for?
What is our brand?
How are we differentiated?
And a lot of work on figuring out how we were going to tell our story.
And I believe that when you figure out what your story is
and how it's differentiated and how to tell it at the different phases of the
customer journey,
and you can apply that to all the channels of demand-gen,
that's when you start humming.
Let's get to our first segment, The Trust Tree, where you go and feel honest
and trusted.
You can share those deepest, darkest pipeline generation secrets.
Tell us a little bit about LiveRamp, what is the company and who are your
customers?
Yeah.
So LiveRamp is a B2B enterprise SaaS company that focuses on data collaboration
And just to put that into context, companies have first-party data.
They value that data that customers give them.
But the amount of data companies have is limited.
And more data is more insight, is a better customer experience,
and companies are always looking to increase their first-party data in a
privacy-safe way.
And so we bring companies together to exchange first-party data
so they can drive stronger business and brand value,
creating that brand loyalty by more personalized experiences
and obviously driving more efficient campaigns,
so they're driving more to the bottom line.
And if I could just give you one small example,
most people, a lot of people have a pet.
One of our customers is Hill's pet nutrition.
And Hill's sells a lot of dog food, a lot of pet food.
They don't have a lot of information about their customers
because they sell their dog food through a third-party,
a pet store, a grocery store, etc.
So Hill's needs more data to understand how to more efficiently market.
They come together within Albert's sins.
They, in a safe way, bring together just the necessary data
so that Hill's can understand what customers,
their customers are doing at Albert's sins.
And Albert's sins can understand what Hill's customers are doing in other
places.
They find out that Hill's customers are buying at pet food companies
and they're also buying at the grocery store.
What does that lead to?
Hill's can do more marketing to customers about buying at Albert's sins
so that when they're getting their groceries, they can also get their pet food.
That makes it more convenient for them to get what they need.
It makes it so that they're having more trips to where they can buy that pet
food
and it allows them to target those customers who have the overlap
between Albert's sins and Hill's more efficiently.
And what does that buying persona look like?
What does that buying committee look like?
Yeah, our primary audience is the marketer,
which I have to say as a CMO is, you know,
such a joy to be able to talk to marketers
and to think about what marketers are thinking about.
But obviously with every enterprise purchase, there is a buying committee.
And in our buying committee is usually,
if there's a chief digital officer, wherever the analysts sit, the CIO,
and then definitely the CFO, convincing the CFO that the return
on the investment in live RAM is going to be there.
So that's our buying committee.
How do you think about your marketing strategy and where demand fits within it?
Demand is at the core.
Again, I come back to everything we have to do
is about driving revenue and you can't do that without driving demand.
It doesn't mean that having a strong brand,
getting thought leadership out there isn't important,
but there's an end game.
And the end game is to take that thought leadership
and that brand awareness to get the right people interested in live RAM.
When I think about how we're organized
and what we think about is what is that buyer journey?
We know that more and more people are doing their research on their own
before ever talking to a human.
So we invest a lot in simple content
so that they can understand what we do
and how what we do can solve their problems and be a benefit.
We are very outcomes focused in our messaging
and we think about serving the right data at the right time in the buyer
journey
and then making sure the SDRs are empowered with what we're running
in terms of campaigns and messaging.
And then there's a strong handoff to our sales team.
And then we very meticulously look at that demand waterfall
and we say what's converting the best or at what stage of the funnel
are we getting stuck and we need to figure out what's going on there.
Sometimes there's that moment where you realize
there's a really easy solve to a really big problem
where you can unlock a lot.
And those are always amazing moments.
Yeah, do you have an example of that?
Off the top of your head?
Recently, we found out that when our opportunities were coming through,
there were starting to be a log jam.
And rather than just, we have amazing SDRs,
but just letting the SDR know,
making sure that our client executive is new,
making sure that the RVP is new,
kind of setting an alert to the entire pursuit team
so that the focus could be on that opportunity
and it didn't get stuck in someone's queue
because it takes a lot of people to understand how important
that opportunity is.
Obviously, we use all the criteria, the scoring, the band criteria,
but still a client executive,
we call them CLs, a client leader or an RVP,
may have context, then SDR doesn't know
or a marketing person doesn't know.
So we've found that we've been able to accelerate
the movement of opportunity through the pipeline
beyond opportunity by that alert going out to enough people
to make sure eyes are on the rise.
You've sort of talked about in the past this idea of,
you know, brand awareness and demand gen,
how do they work hand in hand?
I love the term brand gen,
like what types of brand gen campaigns do you have?
I think that you see a lot more brand gen type initiatives
or things that people want to do that are more of a brand gen play
because every brand campaign needs to have a little bit of demand gen in it now
and every demand gen campaign, you want to have a little bit more brand
involved in it
to not be so transactional,
but why is it so important that these work hand in hand?
Yeah, such a good question.
Well, first, I am a huge believer that a CMO needs to have really strong brand
shops
and really strong demand gen shops.
And I actually came up through more of a communication brand career
and made a purposeful shift over to demand
so that I could be kind of equally strong on both sides.
And when I think about an effective campaign,
every demand impression is also a brand impression.
I think of them together.
That demand impression has to convey the right information
at the right time of the buyer's journey,
so I don't think of them as separated.
Most of our companies don't have the luxury of just running a brand campaign
and then running demand gen campaign.
So I think about they have to be united.
I think where we are doing more pure brand is in thought leadership,
in PR, speaking, but the same time that really believes into our demand
because if you're compelling in that thought leadership,
you're driving someone to your website,
you're getting someone to look at the next piece of content.
We're smart enough to know who looked at our brand content,
who attended our event, who attended our webinar,
and then continue to bring them through the journey.
So we have two major campaigns running now.
One, all about data collaboration, one about media networks,
and we think about the intersection of both brand and demand.
I'm a huge proponent of integrated marketing.
And to do integrated marketing well,
you have to have all your channels lit up around the same idea.
So strong blending of both brand and demand.
Yeah, I think it's really silly that certain brand activities get just like
labeled as brand.
Like, you coming on this podcast, obviously,
you sell to marketers, you have marketers that are listening.
If there's a CPG marketer that's trying to think about data collaboration
and how to access data from anywhere so it can be used everywhere,
they should go to liverimp.com and check it out, right?
At the end of the day, how is that anything but something that increases demand
It's not like you just have a positive brand interaction.
You send someone lollipop and they're like, "Oh, this is tasty.
This brand is slightly more favorable to me."
That's not really how it works in B2B,
although I'm accepting lollipop donations,
if anyone's listening.
But you know what I mean?
It's just silly that this new role of VP of brand content in COMS,
which is, I think, coming a lot more popular,
because they are directly tied to pipeline, whether or not they carry the
number or not,
but they are.
All of their activities are doing that.
I don't know.
I kind of feel like it's a bit archaic, to be honest.
I 100% agree.
Two points on that.
One is, I think, also the reverse community,
where demand marketers can't just put out a bunch of stuff
without having a really clear brand point of view.
What is the value to the customer?
Where is the white space?
Where is the opportunity?
I think it's really easy for us to, in the demand world, to be more reactive.
And to be efficient, you need to be thinking about,
how are you going to tell a story to bring someone down the funnel?
So having that brand's story to guide, that's really important.
And the second thing is, I believe everything has to be measured.
Not everything can be measured directly.
Obviously, a lot on the demand side can be measured directly.
But some things can't, like PR.
And in those cases, I believe you have to have proxies,
so that you can measure the effectiveness.
We use a share of voice measurement.
How much share of voice do we have versus our competitive set versus who people
are
choosing instead of us and having that clear number that everyone's working
against?
I believe is the way to point a company and a team in the right direction.
And for that team to also be empowered to see how what they are doing
ladders up to where the whole company is going.
And when a marketer knows their impact on the entire company,
I find my teams are more inspired.
Yeah, I heard from the great Scott Holden very early on in this podcast.
And he's like, brand is about getting your message to as many people as you can
And that inherently drives demand, right?
When they hear your message, which your message is, you know, why they can
improve
themselves, save money, save time, save energy, make more money, whatever that
message is,
it's a brand gen thing, right?
It's like that's what's going to drive someone to go, you know, fill out a lead
form.
Any other thoughts on brand, on demand, on structure, on market strategy?
A couple of things.
One is coming back to this idea of integrated marketing.
I really believe that breaking down silos is critical.
So within my team, I have a corporate marketing team that's thinking about PR,
thought leadership, analyst relations, internal comms, content development.
I have a growth team that's thinking about integrated campaigns.
They're paid media-owned, earned event demand gen.
I have marketing ops that really bridges things, but those teams have to work
together.
So, you know, one specific example, when we run an event, and an event, our
customer event
is our largest pipeline driver.
It has huge satisfaction.
It's been wonderful to see post-COVID that people come back and how much value
you can drive in an
event.
But it really requires our growth team to be thinking about, you know, the
numbers, like,
how many people can we accommodate and what's it going to look like and how are
we going to
deliver the most value with the space that we have.
But then they have to partner so closely with our content team to say,
"Who are the speakers we need to get on stage?
What is the content that we get on stage?"
And so, I believe one of my philosophies is that making sure you don't build up
silos within
your own marketing team leads to the best marketing.
The interdependencies are key.
I think second, when I had my first marketing leadership role, I was running
the whole
marketing team.
My president said to me, "When you walk into the boardroom, you are head of
marketing,
and you are an executive of this company.
You wear two different hats."
And that was a big aha for me, and realizing that my job is leading and
empowering my
marketing team.
A big part of my job is being super close to our head of sales, our head of
product,
our, you know, the other leaders in the company so that we are in lockstep,
particularly with a sales organization.
And so, as I'm asking my team to break down silos, I'm working to break down
those silos
at that leadership level.
And I think we've been able to move more quickly because there's a strong com
radery,
and there's a strong understanding that we have the same goals.
And when you come back to demand gen and about data and the power of data,
the way those relationships have become strong is not just the human nature of
building a
relationship, but also being able to prove it with the data.
Let me show you what we're delivering for that is helping your team.
That's what builds strong relationships.
So those are some of the lessons that I've learned in managing teams that are
coming to play here at
LiveRamp.
All right, let's get to our next segment.
The playbook, this is where you open up that playbook and talk about the
tactics that help you win.
What are your three channels or tactics that are your most uncuttable budget
items?
I've thought about this a lot because I've listened to your podcast.
And I started with a differentiated brand and understanding that buyer's
journey.
It's not a channel or a tactic, but it is everything.
If you do not get the whole company singing off the same page, it's very hard
to make a difference.
So for me coming in, it was taking that time to do the rigorous research,
talk to customers, get alignment with our leadership, get a strong brand story,
train our marketing, build the marketing materials, and then train our sellers
to use those same
stories as they are talking to their customers.
So having the whole organization moving together, we revealed our brand
platform
at our major customer event, ramp up last February.
And it was this incredible organizing principle around data collaboration.
And so my not cut is strong brand strategy.
And I believe a strong brand strategy is not stagnant.
It has to live and breathe and grow and everyone has to continue to be aligned
and new people
come into the organization and they need to be trained and feel part of that.
So that's number one.
It's so great.
And it's so true.
It's like you spend all this time to come up with all these different things.
You do research, you talk to people, you talk to customers, you talk to
prospects,
you craft and you craft. And it's like, if the sales folks don't know the
message,
if the rest of the employees don't know the message, then you know, what was it
all worth?
I love that.
Absolutely.
It's so often, and I've experienced it and it's lessons learned the hard way,
but
yeah, you cannot have it sit in a PowerPoint.
So the second is ABM.
And I know ABM is such a hot thing right now.
But we think about ABM as one to one, one to few and one to many.
So when you think about that integrated campaign, I even heard you say on
another podcast,
like it's a little bit antiquated.
And I think the new version of the integrated campaign is the ABM model.
And it's not that you don't have all the pieces you need an integrated campaign
but it's how you're serving it up, how you're stratifying your customers and
clustering them.
So, you know, obviously starting with your highest priority customers and using
the assets
for those campaigns to be very one to one, then kind of stepping back and
saying,
okay, well, can we cluster a few and get some traction because they're all in
the same industry,
they're all in automotive or they're all in healthcare.
And can we talk to them in a really personalized way?
And then one to many where we might be casting a broader net all with the goal
of like getting
them into a one to few type of ABM campaign.
I love that. I had an experience earlier today where I was on a call with two
of our leaders.
And we were sort of having this problem that we've been trying to solve.
And one of them was like, hey, have we ever thought about using this tool?
And I was like, oh, that's pretty cool.
No, I hadn't, but we should probably look into that.
We got off the call and then on Slack, 20 minutes later, a different person in
the company
tagged me and those leaders and a few other people and was like,
have we ever thought about this tool? And I was like, dang, I don't know.
I don't know.
I love that.
Right. I'm like, I don't know if they're running ABM campaigns like our company
I don't know like what they're doing, but the fact that within within like 18
minutes,
both people had this like epiphany one in a meeting and one on Slack.
You're like, this is what ABM is, right?
It's like, yeah, like this is why multi threading is important.
This is why like all the stuff is why going to the end user and to leaders
makes sense
because like one came from a leader, one came from end user.
Like it's just that stuff is like that is ABM in a nutshell to me.
And, you know, we're small, we're like, you know, an SMB.
So I doubt that it probably was necessarily doing that, but who knows, right?
Like who knows?
And also just have that kind of idea in your head around like, that's the goal
of ABM.
Like if we can kind of think about like what it should feel like in the end,
it's just inspiring to work on it to get there.
Yeah.
And I love when we can kind of surround our customer and then I can actually go
in and
talk to that CMO.
You know, that's it.
I'm part of the campaign because we target CMOs and marketers.
And when I can step into an ABM and be another dimension, another channel, that
's powerful.
I'm curious, like, how do you think about those other personas that you were
talking about?
Getting them on board, you know, getting the, you know, the chief buyer, the C
MO
on board to, you know, improve their data.
Collaboration is one thing, but then getting the CIO and the CFO,
and it's an entirely different question.
Yeah. It's a great question.
Actually, we've been talking about this recently because, you know, obviously,
resources are limited.
So, you know, to do all of your campaigns in Triplekit and to buy in Triplekit,
to target all those Bushsonas is not realistic for most companies.
It's not realistic for us.
So, the way we have approached it is to squarely go after the CMO,
but to create content to help that CMO talk to the CTO or the CIO or the CFO.
So, empower them to be that champion.
And then once we move it into, we're really talking, we're really getting into
deep into the selling
cycle. That's when we can bring some SMEs from our company in to engage with
those personas.
But for the top to mid funnel, it's been about choices and it's been about,
let's go after that CMO, but let's think more broadly, what does that CMO need
to accomplish?
They don't just need to accomplish driving more revenue with the media budget
they have
or increasing their first party data so they can deliver more personalized
experiences.
They also need to be able to talk to their peers about why this is so important
for the business.
I love that because, you know, so often sort of like sales enablement gets like
chucked in in one
sort of bucket, like who owns that? Is it marketing, what part of marketing,
etc, etc.
And I think that's such a great point that like especially in today's buying
climate,
where convincing that CIO and that CFO are way harder than they were two years
ago, especially in
tech, that having those resources for them to say like, hey, I know this is
going to be pushing a
massive rock uphill for y'all. That's probably going to take six months, but
here's the resources
that you have when you go and go with the CIO and the CFO and everything. I
love that. That's great.
Yeah, anything genders and attachment with that CMO like we're in this with you
, we realize what
you're what you're about to go do. We're going to go do this with you. We're
here to support you.
Okay, what's your third uncuttable? Customer testimonials. So often it's just
marketing speak.
And we have found that having our customers tell our story, having our
customers talk about how
their business is transformed because they work with live ramp is the best
marketing we could ever do.
And one thing we have this customer conference and we spend a lot more time.
You know, our customers are in stage talking, but how do we capture that in
video and get that
on social and get that in webinars and get our customers to feel like we're
actually building
their career and their profile because we want them to be in our webinars, but
they're telling
our story. So I think it's about really undercing the power that our customers
have.
And another company is really want to hear the real scoop from companies that
look like them.
I wish I could show you our our Q3 marketing plan because I would show you that
two of the
points you just listed are literally on there, which is the first one is like,
you know, how we're
doing ABM and how we're thinking about like sales enablement as part of that
and then
customer stories. But like that that's the sort of stuff that I think like
there's so many ways
that you can do it now. And you need to be thinking of all the different ways
that you're doing it,
not just the premium video on your website, but all those other ways.
I absolutely agree. It can actually be a light lift for the customer because
you get the right
material and then you just slice it a ton of different ways and
making that that just such a valuable asset go far is important. And that's
worthwhile for us.
Okay. Any other thoughts on on uncuttable budget items or maybe something that
's your
most cuttable budget item, something that they are not going to be investing in
Yeah, I actually just had this conversation with my team. I really
fundamentally believe in the
power of analyst relations. And I think if you can get into a Gartner magic
quadrant or a
forester wave, like there's so much power in that. We have not historically
invested a lot
in analyst relations. We have subscriptions, but we have not been working on
establishing the
category. And I came in and I said, we are going to do this. But the reality is
I don't have the budget right now to hire the senior person to make that happen
. So I have made
a conscious decision that for the next six months, we're not going to do
analyst relations. I want
to do it. I see the value. But I think as marketers, as leaders, we have to do
that thinking to say,
where am I just dabbling? And where can I really make an impact? And even some
of those things,
like, are important things. Analyst relations is really important. But I just
can't do what I need
to do to get a magic quadrant. So I'm going to let that go so we can generate
more revenue.
And I can have a bigger, better business case when we come into the next fiscal
year to make the case
to hire that person to go after analyst relations.
How do you view your website?
How do we view our website? We are overhauling our website right now. And that
is because our website
needs to be our front door converting high conversion. These hand raisers, they
got to move fast.
When they go to our website, they got to find what they need to find quickly.
They need to get
to go person quickly. So we are big believers in drift. Drift has been a great
tool for us.
And we did our brand overhaul to make things more simplistic. The talk and more
plain language
help people find what they need to find faster in terms of words. But we haven
't
yet gotten that onto our website. So we are getting close to launching that.
And we will like crazy the A/B testing, analyzing it. I think that our website
is so critical since,
you know, the latest data, 86% of people do their research before ever talking
to a human.
So our website needs to like function as our sales force without a person
living on it.
And so our website is key. And that's a big investment area.
All right, let's get to our next segment, the dust up where we talk about
healthy tension.
Of that's with your board, your sales team, your competitors or anyone else.
Jessica, have you had a memorable dust up in your career?
Yeah, I think that a dust up I've had a couple of times as a dust up. Most CMOs
have had at some
point, which is show me the money or show me the results. Why do you need to
spend so much and
what is it getting me? I think we have better tools now to make those arguments
. But even
five years ago, it was harder. So I remember when I was at SAP Concur and we
were transitioning
from we had been bought, concur, and bought the SAP, we were transitioning in.
I had to make the
case for our budget. And it was very hard to, through our attribution models,
to prove the case
for the need for marketing. And there we were developing campaigns and I
decided that we were
going to go completely dark on our marketing. I think it was a four month
period. And then
we lit up all of our channels. And I do believe that the most effective
marketing is when you have
layered your message in every possible channel, what people are speaking about,
what's on your
website, what your demand gen is, what your PR is. So we went from zero to
lighting it all up.
And then measuring that, both in terms of pipeline and brand awareness. And the
results
were so powerful that I was able to secure my budget. I love it. That's awesome
. Okay,
let's get to our final segment. Quick hits, these are quick questions and quick
answers,
just like how Qualify.com helps companies generate pipeline quickly, tap on
your greatest asset,
your website to identify your most valuable visitors and instantly start sales
conversations.
Quick and easy, just like these questions go to Qualify.com to learn more.
Jessica, quick hits,
are you ready? Yes. Number one, what's a hidden talent or skill that's not on
your resume?
I can stand on my head for a really long time. I wish I could say I could stand
on my arms,
that is just not happening, but I can stand on my head for a really long time.
Do you have a favorite
non-marketing hobby that indirectly makes you a better marketer?
I really love to read fiction. I love historical fiction. I just finished
reading Hello Beautiful
by Anne and Napolitano. And I think that letting your brain wander and be a bit
free from
business books and what you have to do in your day is a generator of ideas. And
for me,
as I started by saying, how did I get into marketing, I have this curiosity.
And that's
what led me down that path. And it's so easy once you're in an organization and
you have a big job
and you have a family to have your curiosity go to the fault of the wayside.
And I think
reading helps me and I tap back into that curiosity, which leads to good
marketing.
If you weren't in marketing, what do you think you'd be doing?
If I weren't in marketing, I would own a local luxury women's consignment shop.
Ooh, fun. I really believe that beautiful things have multiple lives. And I
love when I see
someone love something and pass it on so it can have another life. I think
there's a huge
environmental story there. I think that there's a just extending the life of a
beautiful thing is
wonderful. But more than that, we have a shop in Seattle that I love. And when
I go in,
I feel a community. There's I always run into someone. I know the people who
run it just know
everyone. They're introducing me to someone else. I meet another marketer. I
meet another
something I've found resources for lots of things by just being there. And so I
think
my love of relationships, my love of fashion, my curiosity, I think I would
love to own a shop like
that. That's so fun. Final question here. What piece of advice would you give
to a first-time
CMO who's trying to figure out their marketing strategy? First-time CMO. Build
a good network
around you. That doesn't just include people in your company, but people
outside where you can
ask the dumb questions. You can feel like you're not alone because you're not
alone.
Understand the data. The data is power. Invest the time in understanding your
waterfall. Be the box
at the table when it comes to knowing how your marketing organization works and
empower your team. If you're a first-time CMO, you're find those stars and
leverage them
and make them bigger stars. I think cultivating talent is a huge role of a CMO.
And if I were a
new CMO and I started this a year and a half ago, it's finding those tremendous
people who make
everyone better. Jessica, it's been absolutely awesome having you on the show
for listeners.
Go to live ramp.com. Check them out. Obviously, if you're in marketing,
you should definitely go check them out. Live ramp.com. I just got any final
thoughts, anything to plug?
Ian, I just say it's been such a pleasure speaking with you. I love the podcast
. I feel like I'm
always learning. I look forward to connecting in the future. Awesome. Thank you
so much. I
really appreciate it. We appreciate you. Spend time with us.
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